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Locomotive Cleanliness - the bits down below
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walton_cw



Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 850
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DSM's are weekend volunteer roles rostered in advance for both Bewdley and Bridgnorth and, along with the Duty Officer of the day, shown in the traffic notice.
DSM role is the focal point of contact on the day for anything connected with MPD operations and the job list drawn up by Mark. In addition at Bridgnorth there should also be a member of the full time staff available to provide continuity across the weekend between mid week and weekend activities, together with assisting the DSM
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not-commissioned!



Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 201
Location: Porto Alegre Brazil

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just one small point. Is 3850 fitted with a hopper ashpan? In my limited experience i have found that the locomotives fitted with hoppers tend to get alot dirtier between the frames a lot quicker (5164, 5764,7714, 7802) than those not (4566, 7812).

In my opinion the best solution from a prep and disposal point of view is 7812's drop grate and standard pan. Also discipline on the drivers part to not waste oil all over the motion during prep will help prevent ash sticking to surfaces also (and obviously save money). Perhaps this is one reason why such devices were not fitted other than the usual wiltshire job creation scheme!

Don't get me wrong, i agree with the need to clean between the frames and the benefit it is to cleaners to learn about the ironmongry below. i'm just saying there is more than on reason why.
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Last edited by not-commissioned! on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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burnettsj



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not-commissioned! wrote:
Just one small point. Is 3850 fitted with a hopper ashpan? In my limeted experience i have found that the locomotives fitted with hoppers tend to get alot dirtier between the frames a lot quicker (5164, 5764,7714, 7802) than those not (4566, 7812).


If everyone got into the practise of damping down the ash in the pan before dropping / raking out - then this wouldn't be a problem. At the railway where i am on the footplate, 99% of time all ashpans are dropped with the ash damp to minimise dust, keeping the engine clean and minimising the dirt getting into the bearings and increasing wear.

In answer to the question, I suspect 3850 has a modified ashpan as it is a Minehead engine - but do not know for sure.

Regards

Stephen
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bradleyman



Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 829

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't answer re 3850 itself but suspect the following applies.

For 7828 the WSR have made a near conventional pan with no moving parts. The bottom however rather cunningly is form into a duct which slopes to the front with an "oven door" below the damper and below the origonal flloor level. On arrival at shed for disposal the panful of ash is wetted by built in hose connection. Once wet the oven door is opened and using more water a large proportion of the ashpan content is swilled out. The rest is easily then raked out. Result - no dust over the loco to adhere to everything oily!!

No need whatever for the nonsense which comes with rocking grates and hopper ashpans. No need to cover the loco in that pesky dust!

7802 & 7812 will have this type of pan next time round.
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hassell_a



Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bradleyman wrote:
Can't answer re 3850 itself but suspect the following applies.

For 7828 the WSR have made a near conventional pan with no moving parts. The bottom however rather cunningly is form into a duct which slopes to the front with an "oven door" below the damper and below the origonal flloor level. On arrival at shed for disposal the panful of ash is wetted by built in hose connection. Once wet the oven door is opened and using more water a large proportion of the ashpan content is swilled out. The rest is easily then raked out. Result - no dust over the loco to adhere to everything oily!!

No need whatever for the nonsense which comes with rocking grates and hopper ashpans. No need to cover the loco in that pesky dust!

7802 & 7812 will have this type of pan next time round.


Sounds like a good plan.

In the case of grates, the drop section in 7812 is ideal and all that is needed for losing any clinker. There is far less to go wrong/jam up compared to rocking grates. Full rocking grates also encourage the poor practice of dumping the fire very quickly with the consequent thermal stresses on the firebox.
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http://www.4930hagleyhall.org.uk

All Comments and Opinions are my own and do not reflect those of SVR (Holdings) PLC, SVR Company Limited, or SVR Charitable Trust.
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xpc smooth



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 323
Location: in front of a computer...obviously

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brasso1 wrote:
I'm going to comment where I rarely do.

I spent a hell of a lot of time at Bridgnorth for very little reward over around 4 years. I have not been back volunteering in 3 years. The SVR didnt feel important when I started doing a proper job a couple of hundred miles away.

I believe there is still an old BR attitude with many SVR footplate crew, crazy because on the big railway things are a lot more open.


I spent seven years cleaning at Bridgnorth before going up for firing, so don't feel too hard done by. Oh yes, and seventeen years on the shovel before the other bit. And I was doing a proper job all that time.
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xpc smooth



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 323
Location: in front of a computer...obviously

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brasso1 wrote:

Maybe a driver should get a group of cleaners together and work on an engine but while cleaning also talk through how stuff works.


Been there, done that, at Bewdley, last year. Happy to do it again, if anyone asks. Especially if they bring some rags and paraffin...
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brasso1



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Kidderminster - 'The Hole'

PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xpc smooth wrote:
brasso1 wrote:
I'm going to comment where I rarely do.

I spent a hell of a lot of time at Bridgnorth for very little reward over around 4 years. I have not been back volunteering in 3 years. The SVR didnt feel important when I started doing a proper job a couple of hundred miles away.

I believe there is still an old BR attitude with many SVR footplate crew, crazy because on the big railway things are a lot more open.


I spent seven years cleaning at Bridgnorth before going up for firing, so don't feel too hard done by. Oh yes, and seventeen years on the shovel before the other bit. And I was doing a proper job all that time.


It isn't a question of feeling hard done by, I hardly got any attention for the effort I put in. That is why I stopped being arsed with it. I didnt expect to become a fireman overnight and a driver by next month but some encouragement and involvement would have gone some way to retaining my interest.

At the end of the day the SVR currently still relies on volunteers for operational grades. I see the same small number of faces time and again and so the future is probably not sustainable. How many volunteers are put off and pissed off by the short sighted attitudes.
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xpc smooth



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 323
Location: in front of a computer...obviously

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brasso1 wrote:
xpc smooth wrote:
brasso1 wrote:
I'm going to comment where I rarely do.

I spent a hell of a lot of time at Bridgnorth for very little reward over around 4 years. I have not been back volunteering in 3 years. The SVR didnt feel important when I started doing a proper job a couple of hundred miles away.

I believe there is still an old BR attitude with many SVR footplate crew, crazy because on the big railway things are a lot more open.


I spent seven years cleaning at Bridgnorth before going up for firing, so don't feel too hard done by. Oh yes, and seventeen years on the shovel before the other bit. And I was doing a proper job all that time.


It isn't a question of feeling hard done by, I hardly got any attention for the effort I put in. That is why I stopped being arsed with it. I didnt expect to become a fireman overnight and a driver by next month but some encouragement and involvement would have gone some way to retaining my interest.

At the end of the day the SVR currently still relies on volunteers for operational grades. I see the same small number of faces time and again and so the future is probably not sustainable. How many volunteers are put off and pissed off by the short sighted attitudes.


Shame you didn't stick around. After four years you would have been noticed and someone would have been thinking about promotion. The footplate is a necessarily self-reliant place, so cleaners are expected to get stuck in and get on with it. A crew prepping an engine have their own stuff to do and can't always engage in casual chit-chat, although I can't imagine many not answering a question here and there. It's not laid on a plate for you though.

On a personal note, after the first two years or so, I always cleaned wheels and motion, because no-one else did. They all headed for the pretty bits. Even when I was chargehand cleaner, just before going for firing, I still cleaned wheels and motion. I took pride in the cleanliness of my engine going off shed. I never cleaned inside motion because, a) I was never asked to, and b) the engines from Bridgnorth at that time were virtually all Midland types with outside Walschaerts's gear.

I'm on from Bewdley next week. Who's for cleaning the inside motion?
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