SVR-Online Forum Forum Index SVR-Online Forum
The forum is run on a voluntary basis for members, volunteers and SVR enthusiasts.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Bridgnorth Station redevelopment
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11 ... 59, 60, 61  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SVR-Online Forum Forum Index -> General Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J-Green



Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 807
Location: Herefordshire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) The clerestory on the roof of the Visitor Centre feels to me like an Americanism, and certainly inappropriate on an annex to the station building. I don't think it is required.

2) The view from 'approach to donkey gallop' strikes me as if HA have tried to make the visitor centre look a bit like a Signal Box, as does the expanse of glass on the front and the timber cladding. It doesn't work, in my opinion.

3) The Staff Hostel is truly, truly horrific, and looks like a giant worm on the landscape, atop that wonderful stone embankment. It's as if HA have an aversion to brick.

4) As has been said before, the glass footbridge seems to be courting aesthetic disaster with steam locos - and diesel - going underneath day in day out, in what is generally a smoky environment anyway. The lift towers are a paticular issue as these will have a very big impact on the view of the site from hightown. It has been suggested on NatPres that there are types of hydraulic lift that do not require much space atop the top floor.

5) All that being said, the whole layout strikes me as an intelligent use of the space available. It is simply the aesthetics that are making me cringe.

I was working on the day of the meeting for staff and I am volunteering on the railway both days of this members and shareholders weekend, so I have not had a chance to formally represent my views on the subject, so if tigger could take the above comments on board I'd much appreciate it.
_________________
doing nothing in particular but doing it very well.

all opinions are very much my own.

http://www.youtube.com/user/edwardianeccentric
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sharpo



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 3102
Location: Dark Side

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-Green wrote:


3) The Staff Hostel is truly, truly horrific, and looks like a giant worm on the landscape, atop that wonderful stone embankment. It's as if HA have an aversion to brick.


Agreed, words fail me.
_________________
Sharpo (happily avoiding facebook & twitter)

All photo updates listed here, eventually:-
http://www.sharpos-world.co.uk/blog/

Probably better to check youtube videos:-
https://www.youtube.com/user/SharposWorld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 5574
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the aerial view I can see the resonance of a train. The ground view shows, to me, it is not in keeping with the site. I don't like it.

(Funnily enough the mock-up railway cottages for filming "Oh, Dr Beeching!" at Arley all those years ago looked much the part for that site, and had me wondering whether a conceit with a frontage of a terrance of cottages might be suitable, even with the current building plan behind?)

Tigger, thanks for posting up the plans and images but on a more general note the resolution on the plans is too low, even at 400% zoom, to make out detail (such as the room use in the station). Any chance of a high-res version of key parts?

For example, I believe earlier ideas included restoring the shop to a traditional weaiting room, the low-res plans seem to suggest opening it up to create one big booking hall area. I've not seen any comment on the uses/alterations to the existing station space but I'd like the opportunity to consider and comment.

Also I can't make out from the plan the proposed use of space for the cattle dock and station workshop area of the site.

Finally, what is the position with regard to a turntable on this site?

I hope to get there this weekend

Patrick
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sharpo



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 3102
Location: Dark Side

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the signalbox at Bridgnorth staying, or are there other future plans to build a new 'box at the south end of the station, if and when the bay is brought back into use?

The view showing the top of the lift appearing to be in the middle of the existing 'box looks strange. Pity that 2-storey building isn't at the north end of the station, then the lift and steps to the footbridge could be within the building, reducing the number of lifts required. Can't really tell from the plans, but it does look like there is a lift in that new building at the south end?
_________________
Sharpo (happily avoiding facebook & twitter)

All photo updates listed here, eventually:-
http://www.sharpos-world.co.uk/blog/

Probably better to check youtube videos:-
https://www.youtube.com/user/SharposWorld
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Buffer



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 682
Location: Leamington Spa

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharpo wrote:
J-Green wrote:


3) The Staff Hostel is truly, truly horrific, and looks like a giant worm on the landscape, atop that wonderful stone embankment. It's as if HA have an aversion to brick.


Agreed, words fail me.


There seems to be an error with regard to the view from the buffet as we appear to be looking south instead of north as stated. May there not be a similar error in describing the long, curved building as the Staff Hostel? I suggest it is one of Mr.I.K. Brunel's super broad gauge DMUs arriving at the Bridgnorth terminus of the super broad gauge line from Ironbridge.
_________________
Buffer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tigger



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buffer wrote:
sharpo wrote:
J-Green wrote:


3) The Staff Hostel is truly, truly horrific, and looks like a giant worm on the landscape, atop that wonderful stone embankment. It's as if HA have an aversion to brick.


Agreed, words fail me.


There seems to be an error with regard to the view from the buffet as we appear to be looking south instead of north as stated. May there not be a similar error in describing the long, curved building as the Staff Hostel? I suggest it is one of Mr.I.K. Brunel's super broad gauge DMUs arriving at the Bridgnorth terminus of the super broad gauge line from Ironbridge.


Oops, well spotted, and amended. View from buffet is indeed looking south.
Like the amusing (?) analogy about the staff hostel.
'As is' photos will be added shortly, for a 'fair' comparison of what the site looks now - just so no one is under any illusion that all parts of Bridgnorth Station look as impressive as the GII main station building. I shocked myself taking the pics this afternoon - taking the images deliberately to compare fairly re 'before' and 'proposed'.
_________________
On twitter at @svrbridgnorth
On facebook at BridgnorthStation
Webmaster http://www.bridgnorthstation.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tigger



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two 'as is' photos added on facebook
http://on.fb.me/QSWzY8

Comment continues to be made on NatPres
http://railways.national-preservation.com/heritage-railways-centres-uk/33047-severn-valley-railway-launch-%A34-000-000-share-issue-13.html

All constructive comment welcomed, on whatever forum is preferred - it is all being read. Smile
_________________
On twitter at @svrbridgnorth
On facebook at BridgnorthStation
Webmaster http://www.bridgnorthstation.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tigger



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

USEFUL SOURCES of information (provided by Conservation Officer)

Heritage Lottery Fund 2008, Conservation Management Planning, Heritage Lottery Fund (available at www.hlf.org.uk)

Princes Trust 2008 How to write Conservation Reports (Available at http://princes-regeneration.org/publications.php )

English Heritage 2008 Conservation Principles Policies and Guidance English Heritage (available at www.helm.org.uk)

Historic Scotland 2000 Conservation Plans, A Guide to the Preparation of Conservation Plans

Architectural Heritage Fund: http://www.ahfund.org.uk/ (Grants for project development and options appraisals)

Examples of local Conservation Management Plans:
http://shropshiremines.org.uk/index_files/vol1.pdf
http://shropshiremines.org.uk/index_files/vol2.pdf

Wrexham County Borough Council 2008 Pontcysyllte Aqueduct and Canal: Nomination as a World Heritage Site Management Plan



Also worth looking at for general background information on Conservation Areas are:

English Heritage 2010 Understanding Plan. Historic Area Assessments: Principles & Practice.

English Heritage 2006 Guidance on the Management of Conservation Areas. (useful bibliography on back page)

English Heritage 2006 Guidance on Conservation area appraisals.

(all available at www.HELM.org.uk)
_________________
On twitter at @svrbridgnorth
On facebook at BridgnorthStation
Webmaster http://www.bridgnorthstation.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tigger



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AIMS
A conservation management plan is:
· A document which sets out the significance of a place, defines the relevant
conservation issues and establishes policies to sustain and where appropriate reveal
and reinforce the place’s values.
· A framework for decision-making that informs and guides proposals for the place’s
maintenance, repair, presentation, development and management.
· A living document that should be regulalry reviewed and updated
· A document which involves consultation with internal and external stakeholders.
· A document which is formally adopted by those concerned with the care and
management of the place.
_________________
On twitter at @svrbridgnorth
On facebook at BridgnorthStation
Webmaster http://www.bridgnorthstation.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tigger



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Advice from the Conservation Officer:
"The best document for describing the nationally agreed approach to conservation is English Heritage's ‘Conservation Principles’ which basically outlines that an understanding of the significance (meaning, value, importance etc) of a site should be used as a basis for conservation and proposals for new works.
Apologies – it’s a bit of a lengthy read: http://www.helm.org.uk/upload/pdf/Conservation_Principles_Policies_and_Guidance_April08_Web.pdf?1349843656

CONSERVATION PRINCIPLES
POLICIES AND GUIDANCE FOR THE SUSTAINABLE MANAGEMENT OF THE HISTORIC ENVIRONMENT

Consider the effects on authenticity and integrity

91 Evidential value, historical values and some aesthetic values, especially artistic ones, are dependent upon a place retaining (to varying degrees) the actual fabric that has been handed down from the past; but authenticity lies in whatever most truthfully reflects and embodies the values attached to the place (Principle 4.3). It can therefore relate to, for example, design or function, as well as fabric. Design values, particularly those associated with landscapes or buildings, may be harmed by losses resulting from disaster or physical decay, or through ill-considered alteration or accretion. Design value may be recoverable through repair or restoration, but perhaps at the expense of some evidential value. Keeping a large machine, like a water mill or boat lift, in use, may require replacement and modification of structural or moving parts which could be retained if it ceased to operate, producing a tension between authenticity of fabric and function.

92 The decision as to which value should prevail if all cannot be fully sustained always requires a comprehensive understanding of the range and relative importance of the heritage values involved (guided by the assessment of significance: paragraphs 82-83), and what is necessary (and possible) to sustain each of them. Retaining the authenticity of a place is not always achieved by retaining as much of the existing fabric as is technically possible.

93 A desire to retain authenticity tends to suggest that any deliberate change to a significant place should be distinguishable, that is, its extent should be discernible through inspection. The degree of distinction that is appropriate must take account of the aesthetic values of the place. In repair and restoration, a subtle difference between new and existing, comparable to that often adopted in the presentation of damaged paintings, is more likely to retain the coherence of the whole than jarring contrast.

94 Integrity (literally,‘wholeness, honesty’) can apply, for example, to a structural system, a design concept, the way materials or plants are used, the character of a place, artistic creation, or functionality. Decisions about recovering any aspect of integrity that has been compromised must, like authenticity, depend upon a comprehensive understanding of the values of the place, particularly the values of what might be lost in the process.

95 Every place is unique in its combination of heritage values, so, while it is technically possible to relocate some structures, their significance tends to be diminished by separation from their historic location. There are exceptions, for example public sculpture not significantly associated with its current site,or moving a structure back from an eroding cliff edge, thus recovering its intended relationship with the landform. Relocated structures may also acquire new values in a new location.
_________________
On twitter at @svrbridgnorth
On facebook at BridgnorthStation
Webmaster http://www.bridgnorthstation.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
tigger



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 401
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our 'Conservation Area' status is the result of what causes Bridgnorth to be an appealing destination for the 70% of 225,000 visitors to Severn Valley Railway.

If Bridgnorth Station, and the town, were not worthy of 'Conservation Area' status, then as a destination we would be as appealing as Kidderminster is...

So Kidderminster has the station building, and subsequent extensions and additions, that is has - and does not have the planning restrictions that Bridgnorth has.

Bridgnorth Station, and the town, tells an historical story, that Kidderminster never can.

The Conservation Area status is our unique strength (unique to Severn Valley Railway), and our challenge (not weakness) - to extend our facilities without damaging the very strength that causes us to be a sought after destination.
_________________
On twitter at @svrbridgnorth
On facebook at BridgnorthStation
Webmaster http://www.bridgnorthstation.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
std tank



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Liverpool

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tigger wrote:

So Kidderminster has the station building, and subsequent extensions and additions, that is has - and does not have the planning restrictions that Bridgnorth has.
.

Can you tell me exactly what planning restrictions have been applied to the designs at Bridgnorth. It appears to me that the extension south of the existing station building is not in keeping with the Station building itself. As for the staff quarters, I echo the views of many people, yuk.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Danny252



Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 1134

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

std tank wrote:
Can you tell me exactly what planning restrictions have been applied to the designs at Bridgnorth. It appears to me that the extension south of the existing station building is not in keeping with the Station building itself.


To echo what has been said before (Possibly in this thread, maybe somewhere else), being a Grade II listed building actually forbids it being "in keeping" - probably to prevent someone coming along in 100 years and going "blimey, what pretty visitor centres the railways built in the 1860s"! It has to clearly be a new addition - though opinion seems to be that it's a bit too clear at the moment...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hunter_i



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respectfully differ with the consensus that the additions should look different to the existing structures. On such a small site some commonality may be desirable.

In particular the new roof shapes give no acknowledgement to either the old station roof or the boiler shop. I think all the additions need to look as though they were built by a railway company rather than an architect.

Similarly the new footbridge needs to be basically the same as the existing to blend in.

However the interior designs seem fine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chris thomas



Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 333
Location: bridgnorth

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a number of things need comment here. Signal box - yes, it may get moved, but not immediately, as it will take quite some time to build and equip a new box before control can be swapped over from the existing. This idea has not been abandoned, but won't (can't) be an early-stage project. "Bay platform" - there never was one. I suspect you mean "Georges' Siding", which would be most useful as a siding, but can't be done until the sleeping cars are removed, which in turn won't happen until something new is built. In its turn, that requires replacement facilities for the PW and WLA. Yes, it is a small site, which makes phasing very difficult! The "big window" on the southern elevation of the proposed new buffet is in fact to maximise the views. The whole thing can open on a warm day. The clerestory roof is intended to induce ventilation without the need for fans and their associated energy consumption; this could perhaps be amended, though it makes the roof look very plain indeed if we just take it away. As for the north end option, we looked at this very carefully before concluding that it took up too much car park as well as ruining or eliminating the view of the existing station for visitors arriving up the car park (by car or on foot).

The volunteer accommodation is in part designed for light weight. The existing retaining wall may not be able to support much more than it already does and piling down the back of the wall could be difficult if damage to the wall is to be avoided (Glad I'm an electrical engineer, not a civil). The existing exeter sheds are not quite as close to the wall as the new building needs to be if we are to get in the number of beds we need.

The site really is too small, which reduces the options available drastically. If only the "Inchcape Garage" site was available to us, we could do very very much better - but it isn't. It's up for lease at £83,000 per annum; I'm advised that sale is not an option, but the lease value suggests that the purchase price would be around a million before we did anything with it. (We don't need a car showroom, but the location would be ideal) The difference in levels would also present a challenge - does any other heritage railway operate escalators? All the same, I'd love to get it...

Somehow we need to get to a plan that satisfies the majority. This was never going to be easy and still isn't. Constructive ideas are welcome, but please say what you DO want, rather than what you don't.

Finally, a lot of work is taking place to see what can be done and how the plans can be improved. We're not there yet; more hard work is needed. Will keep at it for as long as is needed, though the sooner we can all reach agreement, the sooner we can make a start on building.

Chris
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SVR-Online Forum Forum Index -> General Forum All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11 ... 59, 60, 61  Next
Page 10 of 61

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group