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Brake van rides behind GWR 813
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 874
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Pop round to Comberton Place, and "doorstep" the OM!

Strangely enough, I had considered doing that.
I finished work a bit early today and had time to either visit Comberton Place or have a look at what was in the closing down sale at Paskin's, the tool shop on the Stourport Road.
Naturally, I chose the option that would be of greatest benefit to both Bewdley Wagon Repairs and the GWR 813 Fund, and managed to pick up four boxes of 1/2" Whitworth coach bolts cheap.
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Graham Phillips
Acting deputy assistant junior under minion, Bewdley Wagon Department.
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stowell_d



Joined: 02 Jul 2003
Posts: 97
Location: Everywhere and nowhere

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny252 wrote:
Note that legislation (and ORR guidance on it) does make specific reference to continuous, automatic brakes, not simply that each vehicle has a brake of any description, although it also only gives the ORR/HMRI/etc. the ability to require it, rather than a blanket ruling.

There are also potential issues with passengers being able to tamper with the brake when riding in a brake van, although this is lessened if each van has a guard.


Have a look here between 11.00 and 16.30 mins:-

https://youtu.be/zm4dI4UDnAA
There doesn't seem to be any problem with passengers travelling in an unfitted freight here, or any scope for tampering with the brake in the brake van (or loco!). It also involves 3 "token" (actually ETS) changes, passing passenger trains and 2 level crossings!
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threelinkdave



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 648
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stowell_d wrote:
Danny252 wrote:
Note that legislation (and ORR guidance on it) does make specific reference to continuous, automatic brakes, not simply that each vehicle has a brake of any description, although it also only gives the ORR/HMRI/etc. the ability to require it, rather than a blanket ruling.

There are also potential issues with passengers being able to tamper with the brake when riding in a brake van, although this is lessened if each van has a guard.


Have a look here between 11.00 and 16.30 mins:-

https://youtu.be/zm4dI4UDnAA
There doesn't seem to be any problem with passengers travelling in an unfitted freight here, or any scope for tampering with the brake in the brake van (or loco!). It also involves 3 "token" (actually ETS) changes, passing passenger trains and 2 level crossings!
It appears we need to define passengers. AFAIK there were no passengers carried on the Ffestiniog gravity train. All the persons seen riding the train would be staff, full time or volunteer.

The rules re staff travel are different to fare paying passengers. Another example - facing points. A passenger train requires that facing points are locked with either a locking mechanism operated from the signal box or a locked point clamp. These rules do not apply to ECS workings even if staff are present on the train.hence ECS can run via Highley loop but pass cannot.
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Bulleid and Gresley used auto couplers
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GWR5764PT



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 598
Location: Kidderminster Station

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham wrote:
It's looking like this is unlikely to happen this year now.
First of all, GWR 813's owners need to agree a formal running contract and steaming fees with the SVR. Hopefully this will be done before the November Gala.
Secondly, an official policy on the carrying of passengers in brake vans needs to be drawn up. This will probably mean that we will need to wait until one or both of the fitted brake vans currently under restoration at Bewdley are completed.


They are offering brake van rides at the end of season gala so I can't see why there should be a problem for you.
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Tim Easton, an SVR volunteer (Kidderminster Station) of 10 years service! And now an on train buffet steward for 2 years.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 874
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see why there should be a problem either. If the GM, his PA, or the OM would reply to my emails or phone calls, I might find out why there is.
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Graham Phillips
Acting deputy assistant junior under minion, Bewdley Wagon Department.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 874
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did manage to arrange a meeting with the GM eventually.
He said we would need to have a fully fitted train, so we set a provisional date of 18th February 2017 as we will hopefully have the Southern brake van ready by then. There are currently eight fitted wagons in the goods train we can use, subject to checks on the vacuum and braking system.

Quote:
Pop round to Comberton Place, and "doorstep" the OM!

I did that by accident. I'd gone to the carriage shed on other business and happened to bump in to the OM.
I asked why there were going to be brake van rides during the gala when I had been told we would have to have a fully fitted train.
He said that as the gala event was already planned, it would go ahead with what was available, but all passenger carrying goods trains after that would have to be fully fitted.

It came a a bit of a surprise then, to find photo charters running this week with the photographers riding in the brake vans.
So, 813 hauled an unfitted goods train on Tuesday with passengers in the brake van for a photo charter, yet it's not allowed to haul an unfitted goods train next Saturday with passengers in the brake van for an 813 Fund raiser.
Has anyone got any ideas why this might be, or why the Operations Manager appears to be preventing trains operating on the railway?
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Graham Phillips
Acting deputy assistant junior under minion, Bewdley Wagon Department.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 874
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It turns out the photo charter went ahead because it was already in the diary. I must have missed the cut off date for getting events entered in to the 2016 diary when I first enquired about an 813 charter.

It does seem like an odd way of doing things to me though.
If I've done something in the past, then one day I realise it's dangerous and I've been lucky to get away with it, I stop doing it.
I don't carry on and do it on Tuesday, because I'd already made plans before I realised it was dangerous and I hope my luck will hold out, but then not do it on Saturday because it's too dangerous.
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Graham Phillips
Acting deputy assistant junior under minion, Bewdley Wagon Department.
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hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 5656
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dangerous might be the wrong word, carefully might be better.

It's not unusual to have a future date when new regulations come in, unless there is an immediate safety notice issue.

I think people intuitively think "I'll finish this job but when I plan the next I'll do it differently".

I'm just thankful there are people that have to worry about this stuff so I don't have to!

Patrick
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GWR5764PT



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 598
Location: Kidderminster Station

PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought unfitted goods trains with passengers on SVR were banned until last years autumn gala then they allow them and now they have stopped them again.

PS I have emailed charter@gwr813.org to reserve a place.
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Tim Easton, an SVR volunteer (Kidderminster Station) of 10 years service! And now an on train buffet steward for 2 years.
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