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North of Bridgnorth: 2005 onwards
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bradleyman



Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 827

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManorFan wrote:
cwm46 wrote:


We have to be realistic about the SVR going north of Bridgnorth. It would be fantasatic to go all the way to Ironbridge but it would add lots of operating costs. It would be difficult to provide a lot of additional revenue as it would not be possible to increase ticket prices proportionately without putting people off and so reducing passenger numbers. The full return journey time would probably be too long for the average day out.

This is a shame because the line north of Bridgnorth is rather pleasant; I recommend cycling along it.


Someone really needs to remind the 'Reversing Beeching - North of Bridgnorth' Facebook group of this little fact.


Not fact I'm afraid most of it is just another opinion though the last part might be true.
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michaelh



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 912
Location: Droitwich Spa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharpo wrote:
Stato wrote:
cherry_p wrote:
Stato wrote:
Me thinks If Arriva saw there was extra cash from SVR passengers in going to Ironbridge they would send the bus to pick up at Bridgnorth station.
There isn't, and they don't ....
spot on. Exactly what I mean.

Too many of us old folk with bus passes...


Bus Companies are very happy to run services which have high numbers of passengers with bus passes, since they are reimbursed by the issuing councils for journeys made using said passes.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 894
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A former bus mechanic writes;
Not my department, but as I understand it, that's how it works. In fact, bus companies probably prefer to carry school kids and pensioners with passes, as there's less chance of fraud by drivers handling cash.

Quote:
It would probably not be in the SVR's interests to promote the services of a private bus company

I don't get this. As I mentioned in another thread, the SVR is a tourist attraction, not public transport. Surely it's in both parties interest to promote visiting a tourist attraction by public transport. The timing of trains and cost of a ticket means we're not really in direct competition with any bus service.
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Graham Phillips
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boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham wrote:
boldford wrote:
To accurately quote : Some might argue that it would not be in the SVR's interest to promote the (bus) service.


I don't get this. As I mentioned in another thread, the SVR is a tourist attraction, not public transport. Surely it's in both parties interest to promote visiting a tourist attraction by public transport. The timing of trains and cost of a ticket means we're not really in direct competition with any bus service.


Quite simple really. Those that hold that inward looking point of view fear our visitors going off elsewhere to spend their "hard earned".
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 894
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was an accurate copy& paste quote from Lench_S's post, three replies down from yours.
I'm still not sure I get it. Is the fear that people who live within walking distance of the railway and rely on public transport will visit other attractions instead of the SVR if they are able to?
Public transport works both ways. Surely it must bring more visitors in than it takes away.
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boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham wrote:
That was an accurate copy& paste quote from Lench_S's post, three replies down from yours. . . . .
My apologies. I thought you mis-quoted my post.

Graham wrote:
. . . . .I'm still not sure I get it. Is the fear that people who live within walking distance of the railway and rely on public transport will visit other attractions instead of the SVR if they are able to?
Public transport works both ways. Surely it must bring more visitors in than it takes away.
I agree public transport does work both ways.

I would speculate that those that express a concern feel the bus would whisk locals and not-so-locals off to spend their cash elsewhere, rather that at BH, and ignore the potential to deliver additional visitors.
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Lench_S



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 528
Location: Stourport

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My post referring to promoting the Arriva service 9 was purely in terms of having passengers visiting the SVR, travelling by train to Bridgnorth and then promoting getting the bus to Ironbridge as part of their visit. In that scenario, we would have successfully enticed visitors onto the railway, only to encourage them to visit another attraction by another means of transport.

Encouraging passengers to see the beautiful Severn Valley by bus services 297 or 125 could be viewed in the same way.

Passengers visiting the railway by public transport is entirely different, and in my opinion should be promoted a great deal, as the LM ticket offer gives an example of.

Encouraging people staying in the Ironbridge Gorge world heritage site area to visit the SVR by bus, potentially with a multi ticket style deal, could be a good way to encourage visits.

Being purely cynical, if we encourage all passengers to get to the railway by public transport we could lose a lot of 3 car park ticket sales!
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KJEvans



Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 1236
Location: Kidderminster or Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lench_S wrote:
My post referring to promoting the Arriva service 9 was purely in terms of having passengers visiting the SVR, travelling by train to Bridgnorth and then promoting getting the bus to Ironbridge as part of their visit. In that scenario, we would have successfully enticed visitors onto the railway, only to encourage them to visit another attraction by another means of transport.

Encouraging passengers to see the beautiful Severn Valley by bus services 297 or 125 could be viewed in the same way.

Passengers visiting the railway by public transport is entirely different, and in my opinion should be promoted a great deal, as the LM ticket offer gives an example of.

Encouraging people staying in the Ironbridge Gorge world heritage site area to visit the SVR by bus, potentially with a multi ticket style deal, could be a good way to encourage visits.

Being purely cynical, if we encourage all passengers to get to the railway by public transport we could lose a lot of 3 car park ticket sales!

But in your first case, they have still travelled on the railway and thus paid, unlike if they use the 125 instead.

On the cynical point at the end, if the car park is full (like the KR one is often on most special events and during the summer) then there isn't any car parking money coming from any additional people coming and I would say the railway would prefer they come to them not. One reason why the NR through tickets are a good deal and should be encouraged.
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Last edited by KJEvans on Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lench_S



Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Posts: 528
Location: Stourport

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJEvans wrote:
in your first case, they still have travelled on the railway and thus paid, unlike if they use the 125 instead.


Very true, I was thinking more we could be losing out on the extra spend like in buffets and gift shops - this spend could potentially be directed to Ironbridge instead if the railway is just the start of a day out.
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KJEvans



Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 1236
Location: Kidderminster or Edinburgh

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lench_S wrote:
KJEvans wrote:
in your first case, they still have travelled on the railway and thus paid, unlike if they use the 125 instead.


Very true, I was thinking more we could be losing out on the extra spend like in buffets and gift shops - this spend could potentially be directed to Ironbridge instead if the railway is just the start of a day out.

Ah the Primary vs. Secondary spend debate/fight/whatever.
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Bryan Clarke



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 208
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJEvans wrote:
Lench_S wrote:
KJEvans wrote:
in your first case, they still have travelled on the railway and thus paid, unlike if they use the 125 instead.


Very true, I was thinking more we could be losing out on the extra spend like in buffets and gift shops - this spend could potentially be directed to Ironbridge instead if the railway is just the start of a day out.

Ah the Primary vs. Secondary spend debate/fight/whatever.


Secondary spend is closely related too first having passengers.

I was looking forward to a profound and informative discussion concerning the position on a railway 'North of Bridgnorth'. Not bus services and business plans !
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Danny252



Joined: 01 Oct 2009
Posts: 1151

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If building a railway "North of Bridgnorth" wouldn't be something that involves a business plan, I don't know what would!
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Bryan Clarke



Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Posts: 208
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny252 wrote:
If building a railway "North of Bridgnorth" wouldn't be something that involves a business plan, I don't know what would!


A very comprehensive business plan too !

My previous comment was directed at previous posts commenting on the possibility that the SVR could loose money from additional spend, if people traveled to the SVR by bus.

Back on thread. Although there is zero possibility that the SVR will ever take on the mammoth financial and physical task of extending Northwards, that doesn't mean that there might not be other serious visionaries who don't have a fb page ! Smile
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ManorFan



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 330
Location: Bromsgrove

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bryan Clarke wrote:
Danny252 wrote:
If building a railway "North of Bridgnorth" wouldn't be something that involves a business plan, I don't know what would!


A very comprehensive business plan too !

My previous comment was directed at previous posts commenting on the possibility that the SVR could loose money from additional spend, if people traveled to the SVR by bus.

Back on thread. Although there is zero possibility that the SVR will ever take on the mammoth financial and physical task of extending Northwards, that doesn't mean that there might not be other serious visionaries who don't have a fb page ! Smile


Well, whilst I fully acknowledge that the right person/people with enough financial clout and common sense might be able to put together a good business case for this, independent of the SVR as a whole, as things stand the current Facebook group appears to be comprised of many of the same people who propose to reopen the ENTIRE Somerset and Dorset railway along its exact original route; people who expect the local authorities involved to simply hand them a blank cheque with their blessing and are convinced that compulsory purchase orders are the answer to any/all issues pertaining to land ownership and buildings on former track beds.
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mrmover



Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 863
Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManorFan wrote:
Bryan Clarke wrote:
Danny252 wrote:
If building a railway "North of Bridgnorth" wouldn't be something that involves a business plan, I don't know what would!


A very comprehensive business plan too !

My previous comment was directed at previous posts commenting on the possibility that the SVR could loose money from additional spend, if people traveled to the SVR by bus.

Back on thread. Although there is zero possibility that the SVR will ever take on the mammoth financial and physical task of extending Northwards, that doesn't mean that there might not be other serious visionaries who don't have a fb page ! Smile



Well, whilst I fully acknowledge that the right person/people with enough financial clout and common sense might be able to put together a good business case for this, independent of the SVR as a whole, as things stand the current Facebook group appears to be comprised of many of the same people who propose to reopen the ENTIRE Somerset and Dorset railway along its exact original route; people who expect the local authorities involved to simply hand them a blank cheque with their blessing and are convinced that compulsory purchase orders are the answer to any/all issues pertaining to land ownership and buildings on former track beds.


Of course, that is one of the reasons that we live in a democracy, in that people are free to expound their views, no matter how implausible they may be. There is nothing to prevent these individuals in expressing their views, or indeed hoping that they will be granted the relevant permissions to bring their ideas to fruition. Who knows, they may be a winner of the recent US lottery and have a spare $500m to spend. But whether that would be enough to buy the land, CPO or no CPO is a different matter.

I actually like reading all this stuff - it gives me a sense of belief that I'm right and they're not!
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