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hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 5558
Location: University of Worcester

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shropshire Star August 5th Could steam trains return to Ironbridge?

The article states Conservative councillors have vowed to support the Telford Steam Railway project to extend southwards from its newest stop in Lawley,
and help the group get funding.

(My concern has always been the potential for abstraction of passenger volumes from the SVR)

Patrick
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cwm46



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hearn_p wrote:
Shropshire Star August 5th Could steam trains return to Ironbridge?

The article states Conservative councillors have vowed to support the Telford Steam Railway project to extend southwards from its newest stop in Lawley,
and help the group get funding.

(My concern has always been the potential for abstraction of passenger volumes from the SVR)

Patrick


Agreed. Also, because the Telford Steam Railway such a poor example of a preserved railway, anyone visiting that may think they are all the same and not bother to visit the SVR. I can't see how the TSR is a good thing for a cash strapped council to help fund. The pride of the line appears to be an industrial shunter that pulls a DMU!
I've never been because it looks so lacking in anything of interest but, based on similar railways I have seen, I expect there is loads of tat lying around and slowly decaying.
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sue



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a bit mean.

They are all volunteers and work extremely hard. Everybody has to start somewhere and they have done amazing work there in the last few years.

They do have a full sized loco but pointless to use it on the restricted track they have at the moment. Once they manage to link up with the line down to Buildwas it will be great to ride down into the Gorge via Coalbrookdale viaduct.

I think it is very forward thinking of the Council to consider helping as much as they can in order to help tourism in the area and I think a great use of my council tax.

I am a supporter of both the Severn Valley Railway AND Telford Steam Railway and there is definitely room for both in the County.
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ManorFan



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 328
Location: Bromsgrove

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hearn_p wrote:
Shropshire Star August 5th Could steam trains return to Ironbridge?

The article states Conservative councillors have vowed to support the Telford Steam Railway project to extend southwards from its newest stop in Lawley,
and help the group get funding.

(My concern has always been the potential for abstraction of passenger volumes from the SVR)

Patrick


Sadly, a few members of the "Reverse Beeching - Bridgnorth to Ironbrdige" Facebook group have decided that the question mark in the article is irrelevant and this IS happening.

cwm46 wrote:


Agreed. Also, because the Telford Steam Railway such a poor example of a preserved railway, anyone visiting that may think they are all the same and not bother to visit the SVR. I can't see how the TSR is a good thing for a cash strapped council to help fund. The pride of the line appears to be an industrial shunter that pulls a DMU!
I've never been because it looks so lacking in anything of interest but, based on similar railways I have seen, I expect there is loads of tat lying around and slowly decaying.

Rolling Eyes
Oh dear - what utter drivel. You berate the line, basically insult those who volunteer there and then admit that you have never actually visited the line. Fortunately, this makes it difficult to take you very seriously.

sue wrote:
T
They do have a full sized loco but pointless to use it on the restricted track they have at the moment. Once they manage to link up with the line down to Buildwas it will be great to ride down into the Gorge via Coalbrookdale viaduct.


Indeed - they own this:

But I wouldn't expect our friend who berates railways without actually having them visited them to be aware of this little fact.[/img]
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cwm46



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sue wrote:
That's a bit mean.

They are all volunteers and work extremely hard. Everybody has to start somewhere and they have done amazing work there in the last few years.

They do have a full sized loco but pointless to use it on the restricted track they have at the moment. Once they manage to link up with the line down to Buildwas it will be great to ride down into the Gorge via Coalbrookdale viaduct.

I think it is very forward thinking of the Council to consider helping as much as they can in order to help tourism in the area and I think a great use of my council tax.

I am a supporter of both the Severn Valley Railway AND Telford Steam Railway and there is definitely room for both in the County.


I'm not sure there is room for both.
Firstly it spreads funding and volunteers more thinly. This and other similar schemes could ultimately contribute to the SVR to failing.
Secondly, and more importantly, these little preservation schemes do absolutely nothing to further the preservation movement. Although I haven't been to Telford I have been to a number of other similar lines. The reaction of those who aren't committed enthusiasts but like a day out at a preserved railway to these lesser railways is one of horror. Loads of rotting tat all around and very little in the way of interesting locos and stock. Someone whose first visit to a preserved railway is to one of these lesser lines is unlikely to then go and visit a good preserved railway. Thus more revenue is lost for the better railways.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am being realistic. I fully appreciate there are some very dedicated people working very hard on these railways but I don't see them as being a good thing for the overall railway preservation movement.
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cwm46



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ManorFan wrote:
hearn_p wrote:
Shropshire Star August 5th Could steam trains return to Ironbridge?

The article states Conservative councillors have vowed to support the Telford Steam Railway project to extend southwards from its newest stop in Lawley,
and help the group get funding.

(My concern has always been the potential for abstraction of passenger volumes from the SVR)

Patrick


Sadly, a few members of the "Reverse Beeching - Bridgnorth to Ironbrdige" Facebook group have decided that the question mark in the article is irrelevant and this IS happening.

cwm46 wrote:


Agreed. Also, because the Telford Steam Railway such a poor example of a preserved railway, anyone visiting that may think they are all the same and not bother to visit the SVR. I can't see how the TSR is a good thing for a cash strapped council to help fund. The pride of the line appears to be an industrial shunter that pulls a DMU!
I've never been because it looks so lacking in anything of interest but, based on similar railways I have seen, I expect there is loads of tat lying around and slowly decaying.

Rolling Eyes
Oh dear - what utter drivel. You berate the line, basically insult those who volunteer there and then admit that you have never actually visited the line. Fortunately, this makes it difficult to take you very seriously.

sue wrote:
T
They do have a full sized loco but pointless to use it on the restricted track they have at the moment. Once they manage to link up with the line down to Buildwas it will be great to ride down into the Gorge via Coalbrookdale viaduct.


Indeed - they own this:

But I wouldn't expect our friend who berates railways without actually having them visited them to be aware of this little fact.[/img]


Yes I know they have had a 56xx for many years, but I also know it ain't worth going because I won't see it working. Catering for those wishing to ride in a non working DMU pulled by an industrial shunter is quite a niche market.
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bradleyman



Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 821

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cwm46 wrote:
sue wrote:
That's a bit mean.

They are all volunteers and work extremely hard. Everybody has to start somewhere and they have done amazing work there in the last few years.

They do have a full sized loco but pointless to use it on the restricted track they have at the moment. Once they manage to link up with the line down to Buildwas it will be great to ride down into the Gorge via Coalbrookdale viaduct.

I think it is very forward thinking of the Council to consider helping as much as they can in order to help tourism in the area and I think a great use of my council tax.

I am a supporter of both the Severn Valley Railway AND Telford Steam Railway and there is definitely room for both in the County.


I'm not sure there is room for both.
Firstly it spreads funding and volunteers more thinly. This and other similar schemes could ultimately contribute to the SVR to failing.
Secondly, and more importantly, these little preservation schemes do absolutely nothing to further the preservation movement. Although I haven't been to Telford I have been to a number of other similar lines. The reaction of those who aren't committed enthusiasts but like a day out at a preserved railway to these lesser railways is one of horror. Loads of rotting tat all around and very little in the way of interesting locos and stock. Someone whose first visit to a preserved railway is to one of these lesser lines is unlikely to then go and visit a good preserved railway. Thus more revenue is lost for the better railways.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am being realistic. I fully appreciate there are some very dedicated people working very hard on these railways but I don't see them as being a good thing for the overall railway preservation movement.


Whilst it does sound harsh there is a serious point here in that I have experienced busy folk who have first visited a "lesser" line (not TSR) and been totally unimpressed on several fronts. As a result they then wrote off the whole heritage railway experience and were most unlikely to give it another try.
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ManorFan



Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 328
Location: Bromsgrove

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bradleyman wrote:
cwm46 wrote:
sue wrote:
That's a bit mean.

They are all volunteers and work extremely hard. Everybody has to start somewhere and they have done amazing work there in the last few years.

They do have a full sized loco but pointless to use it on the restricted track they have at the moment. Once they manage to link up with the line down to Buildwas it will be great to ride down into the Gorge via Coalbrookdale viaduct.

I think it is very forward thinking of the Council to consider helping as much as they can in order to help tourism in the area and I think a great use of my council tax.

I am a supporter of both the Severn Valley Railway AND Telford Steam Railway and there is definitely room for both in the County.


I'm not sure there is room for both.
Firstly it spreads funding and volunteers more thinly. This and other similar schemes could ultimately contribute to the SVR to failing.
Secondly, and more importantly, these little preservation schemes do absolutely nothing to further the preservation movement. Although I haven't been to Telford I have been to a number of other similar lines. The reaction of those who aren't committed enthusiasts but like a day out at a preserved railway to these lesser railways is one of horror. Loads of rotting tat all around and very little in the way of interesting locos and stock. Someone whose first visit to a preserved railway is to one of these lesser lines is unlikely to then go and visit a good preserved railway. Thus more revenue is lost for the better railways.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but I am being realistic. I fully appreciate there are some very dedicated people working very hard on these railways but I don't see them as being a good thing for the overall railway preservation movement.


Whilst it does sound harsh there is a serious point here in that I have experienced busy folk who have first visited a "lesser" line (not TSR) and been totally unimpressed on several fronts. As a result they then wrote off the whole heritage railway experience and were most unlikely to give it another try.


It should be noted, though, that even the 'premier' railways can give the wrong impression. A poor or dismissive attitude from a volunteer/member of staff toward a customer has exactly the same result.
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boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live quite close to TSR and pass their site at least once a week. It saddens me to agree with much of the criticism levelled at them. I cannot and would not decry their enthusiasm but being such a late entrant to the heritage railway circle I feel they have an awful lot of catching up to do to enthuse many folk to pay money to visit the site and ride on their train.
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marsa69



Joined: 25 Jul 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Kingdom of Mercia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TSR won't need to play catch-up to anyone with the running of the Polar Express this Christmas. And the Christmas after that and the Christmas after that. New facilities, new locomotives, newer coaching stock, track extension southwards, new station buildings, support from the local Council to list just a few. Oh and the fact that the railway has raised all the money itself WITHOUT being in debt (unlike some railways) and without the support of Lottery funding.

And if you really paid attention and stopped for a look around and a chat instead of just driving past then you'd learn something.

When the TSR reach Ironbridge they won't be abstracting passengers from your railway at all as the 100,000 that the Chairman spoke of in his radio interview are visitors to the Gorge and all the various museums down there.

People should really do their homework before slagging off something they know nothing about.
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marsa69



Joined: 25 Jul 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Kingdom of Mercia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boldford wrote:
I live quite close to TSR and pass their site at least once a week. It saddens me to agree with much of the criticism levelled at them. I cannot and would not decry their enthusiasm but being such a late entrant to the heritage railway circle I feel they have an awful lot of catching up to do to enthuse many folk to pay money to visit the site and ride on their train.


No catching-up required. 100% increase in ridership this year. 14,000 booked for Christmas by the beginning of Sept to make Christmas sold out. It could have been 40,000 but for the length of line currently.

Toodle pip!
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marsa69



Joined: 25 Jul 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Kingdom of Mercia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cwm46 wrote:
ManorFan wrote:
hearn_p wrote:
Shropshire Star August 5th Could steam trains return to Ironbridge?

The article states Conservative councillors have vowed to support the Telford Steam Railway project to extend southwards from its newest stop in Lawley,
and help the group get funding.

(My concern has always been the potential for abstraction of passenger volumes from the SVR)

Patrick


Sadly, a few members of the "Reverse Beeching - Bridgnorth to Ironbrdige" Facebook group have decided that the question mark in the article is irrelevant and this IS happening.

cwm46 wrote:


Agreed. Also, because the Telford Steam Railway such a poor example of a preserved railway, anyone visiting that may think they are all the same and not bother to visit the SVR. I can't see how the TSR is a good thing for a cash strapped council to help fund. The pride of the line appears to be an industrial shunter that pulls a DMU!
I've never been because it looks so lacking in anything of interest but, based on similar railways I have seen, I expect there is loads of tat lying around and slowly decaying.

Rolling Eyes
Oh dear - what utter drivel. You berate the line, basically insult those who volunteer there and then admit that you have never actually visited the line. Fortunately, this makes it difficult to take you very seriously.

sue wrote:
T
They do have a full sized loco but pointless to use it on the restricted track they have at the moment. Once they manage to link up with the line down to Buildwas it will be great to ride down into the Gorge via Coalbrookdale viaduct.


Indeed - they own this:

But I wouldn't expect our friend who berates railways without actually having them visited them to be aware of this little fact.[/img]


Yes I know they have had a 56xx for many years, but I also know it ain't worth going because I won't see it working. Catering for those wishing to ride in a non working DMU pulled by an industrial shunter is quite a niche market.


The DMU that you dismiss as non-working is actually fully serviceable. Used as hauled stock whilst work on the rest of the coaching fleet takes place. Although I have already stated that in previous posts which obviously reinforces my initial view of you.

What would you like to see at a 'lesser, insignificant railway'? Bigger engines, more coaches, longer services? Well pal they're all in the pipeline and if you, and others like you, actually took the time to engage with these lesser railways then you'd REALLY know what is going on behind the scenes. I also take it that you think somewhere like the Foxfield Light Railway is a waste of space too?
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cwm46



Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marsa69 wrote:


What would you like to see at a 'lesser, insignificant railway'? Bigger engines, more coaches, longer services? Well pal they're all in the pipeline and if you, and others like you, actually took the time to engage with these lesser railways then you'd REALLY know what is going on behind the scenes. I also take it that you think somewhere like the Foxfield Light Railway is a waste of space too?


I would like to see fewer heritage railways. There simply isn't enough volunteers or money sloshing around for all of them to succeed. This will become increasingly obvious as the years go by.

I stick by my point that a little industrial loco pulling a DMU (which is the main photo feature of the TSR website) does nothing for the image of heritage railways. The Foxfield is very slightly better in that it does have coaches rather than a DMU to ride in and one interesting loco. I don't see it as adding anything to the heritage railway scene. Based on conversations with friends who are not enthusiasts a visit to these these lesser railways is likely to put them off going to the better ones. This is a bad thing.
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sue



Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will have to agree to disagree then. I have financially supported both SVR and TSR and I want them both to succeed as I'm sure they will.

TSR have Polar Express at the moment which sounds like it's been very well organised and very popular. SVR have their Santa Specials which are also very popular.

I think it's wonderful to have two heritage railways in the area and when TSR have expanded more and eventually into the Ironbridge Gorge even better.
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creese_m



Joined: 19 Sep 2003
Posts: 564
Location: West Midlands

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cwm46 wrote:
marsa69 wrote:


What would you like to see at a 'lesser, insignificant railway'? Bigger engines, more coaches, longer services? Well pal they're all in the pipeline and if you, and others like you, actually took the time to engage with these lesser railways then you'd REALLY know what is going on behind the scenes. I also take it that you think somewhere like the Foxfield Light Railway is a waste of space too?


I would like to see fewer heritage railways. There simply isn't enough volunteers or money sloshing around for all of them to succeed. This will become increasingly obvious as the years go by.

I stick by my point that a little industrial loco pulling a DMU (which is the main photo feature of the TSR website) does nothing for the image of heritage railways. The Foxfield is very slightly better in that it does have coaches rather than a DMU to ride in and one interesting loco. I don't see it as adding anything to the heritage railway scene. Based on conversations with friends who are not enthusiasts a visit to these these lesser railways is likely to put them off going to the better ones. This is a bad thing.


I have to take you to task for this

Foxfield is a long established preserved railway with station , museum , excellent pub and tea room . The excellent North staffs restored coaches, custodian of NSR no.2 from the NRM , the colliery at Foxfield progressing and one of the best collections of appropriate colliery wagons

larger isn't always better and these smaller lines option have a charm of their own

I have had some very good days at Telford . They could compliment the SVR and Ironbridge attractions and this is a tourist market that really needs building on
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