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Improving the restoration rate of non passenger stock
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Robert



Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 250
Location: Bridgnorth

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hunter_i wrote:
As a basic model there could be displays and maybe guided tours/talks at the Kidderminster goods sheds/museum and the Engine House. Combined perhaps with some displays of freight handling at Bewdley and livestock loading at Highley. The Activity Club would probably have ideas on how to entertain children - games like pass the parcel perhaps?

Am I right in thinking that there used to be some sort of event a number of years back called 'Heavy Horse Weekend'? It would have been at least 2005 that this is going back towards...
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sharpo



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert wrote:
hunter_i wrote:
As a basic model there could be displays and maybe guided tours/talks at the Kidderminster goods sheds/museum and the Engine House. Combined perhaps with some displays of freight handling at Bewdley and livestock loading at Highley. The Activity Club would probably have ideas on how to entertain children - games like pass the parcel perhaps?

Am I right in thinking that there used to be some sort of event a number of years back called 'Heavy Horse Weekend'? It would have been at least 2005 that this is going back towards...

I do have photos from that event in 2005, but this was from 2003:-


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hunter_i



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember reading about those events and a gentleman named Ian Prior? provided the heavy horses. Maybe somebody knows whether he lost interest or the event did not attract sufficient additional passenger loading, but just watching a horse pulling a wagon does not seem particularly interesting.

A quick Google search on "Heavy Horse Weekends" disclosed current such events have multiple attractions i.e. - "Formerly the Heavy Horse Show, the Portsmouth Rural & Seaside Show includes fantastic horse displays, ferret-racing, dog shows, village sports, and plenty more to be announced in the months leading up to the event!"

"The Great All England Horse Ploughing Match, Country Fair & Fun Family Dog Show Heavy Horses Ploughing competition, Show classes, Ring Displays including gun dogs, birds of prey, side saddle. Fun family dog show, craft stands."

Freight weekends do not need to be such massive events, but they do need to engage at a broader emotional level, either by education or physical involvement, hence my marketing concept of "How we lived then".
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Stato



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hunter_i wrote:
Freight weekends do not need to be such massive events.
but they do need to make a profit for the SVR in some way.
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oldsteamer



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a pick-up/set down freight could be run at certain events such as Members' & Shareholders' weekend, the 1940's weekends, autumn gala weekend to emphasise the importance of our freight wagons while asking for donations at the stations while shunting takes place.
Bringing back the Heavy Horse Weekend would be a good opportunity to raise some cash also.
It is a pity that only a few wagons are kept in good order to keep the SVR running while others are quietly rotting away in sidings or in some cases being covered in brambles!
Paul Fathers hit the nail on the head some time ago when he said that we need something along the lines (no pun intened) of The Engine House just for wagons.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We seem to heading in two different directions with the activity suggestions.

On the one hand, there's the Goods Weekend, possibly incorporating heavy horses and vintage lorries.
This is a one off or annual event, similar to the Diesel Gala or '60's Weekend which would hopefully bring in more money than it costs to put on.
I'd be happy to help with this, dressing up as a lorry driver's mate and loading empty boxes on and off wagons.

On the other hand, there's the permanent display as part of a Heritage Lottery Fund deal, which I imagine to be something like Enginuity at Ironbridge.
This is so far removed from my idea of volunteering on the railway that I can't build up any enthusiasm for getting involved in it, even though I understand that providing this sort of children's adventure playground may lead to getting the funding for a wagon shed.

Which way forward from here?
How do we go about getting a Goods Weekend on the calendar?
How do we find out the specific requirements of a HLF grant so we can say "Yes, we'll allocate that space there to build the Education & Participation Centre and that space there to build the shed"?
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madderlake



Joined: 22 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another way of providing education is with apprenticeships.
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Stato



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham wrote:
How do we go about getting a Goods Weekend on the calendar?
you need a plan! Some questions may help.
How many freight trains would be running and how do you fit in the passenger trains? How much is the ticket price.
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Graham



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really have no idea how to even start organising something like this.
I was hoping all I had to do was come up with an idea and someone else would do all the hard work. Razz

Using the Intermediste Footplate Experience as a guide, 8 participants at 425 each is 3400 total, or 1700 per round trip income to the railway. This figure is probably way off the actual cost of running a train and doesn't take in to account such things the 6 free guests or the wages of the full time FE organiser. It's a number to start with though.
To qualify as a proper Goods Weekend, I think we would need two trains doing two full round trips each day, so that's 8x1700=13600 income needed to match the equivalent number of FE trains.
Or, in other words, we would need to sell 777 tickets at 17.50 to people who wouldn't have otherwise bought a ticket.
That's a lot of tickets for a minority interest event.
However, I think I've heard the figure of 400 as the cost of a photographer's charter. If that's right, then that's only 3200 for the 8 round trips, or 182 extra tickets sold, which sounds a bit more realistic.

I realise I have vastly over simplified the whole thing and not taken in to account such things as extra loco crew availability and running round at Kidderminster and Bridgnorth, but it's a start.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, calculating how many extra passenger tickets would need to be sold on a Goods Weekend to match the income from an equivalent number of Footplate Experience trains would be irrelevant if each goods train on the Goods Weekend was a Goods Train Footplate Experience. Wink
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Buffer



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 682
Location: Leamington Spa

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham wrote:
We seem to heading in two different directions with the activity suggestions.

On the one hand, there's the Goods Weekend, possibly incorporating heavy horses and vintage lorries.
This is a one off or annual event, similar to the Diesel Gala or '60's Weekend which would hopefully bring in more money than it costs to put on.
I'd be happy to help with this, dressing up as a lorry driver's mate and loading empty boxes on and off wagons.

On the other hand, there's the permanent display as part of a Heritage Lottery Fund deal, which I imagine to be something like Enginuity at Ironbridge.
This is so far removed from my idea of volunteering on the railway that I can't build up any enthusiasm for getting involved in it, even though I understand that providing this sort of children's adventure playground may lead to getting the funding for a wagon shed.

Which way forward from here?
How do we go about getting a Goods Weekend on the calendar?
How do we find out the specific requirements of a HLF grant so we can say "Yes, we'll allocate that space there to build the Education & Participation Centre and that space there to build the shed"?


Of the two methods of raising funds for wagon restoration and conservation, an application for a grant from HLF is the one that could give results relatively quickly given that much of the work has already been done. As we have been told, it is the education and participation side that needs to be beefed up. Paul Fathers has said that HLF applications are now handled centrally on the SVR but I presume this means that the actual application is made centrally, with all the detailed work still being done by the sponsoring group.
If this be the case and the wagon group wants help with this aspect then surely within the SVR membership of around 12500 there is sufficient expertise to do a first-rate job this time round. There is so much goodwill out there and on top of this vast membership there are also many others outside the SVR family that would assist. As an example of the sort of networks that could be built up, here is one based on my own experience. For much of my working life I was teaching undergraduates, with a bit of adult education as a voluntary activity, and our daughter was, until recently, the head of a large primary school. We could pick the brains of numerous friends and former colleagues so that it would be possible to cover the whole educational spectrum from primary level right up to university and adult education. Add in the many existing volunteers who could do the same and we have a veritable army in the offing.
Should there be any interest in these ideas, I will explain one way by which the SVR could create a small version of what Ironbridge has to offer with the minimum of expenditure.
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Stato



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fathers_p wrote:
The site selected for the facility was just beyond the permanent way storage area at Bewdley, in the cutting of the disused Stourport line
great idea but a bit of a trek from the station for the visitors.
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sharpo



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stato wrote:
Fathers_p wrote:
The site selected for the facility was just beyond the permanent way storage area at Bewdley, in the cutting of the disused Stourport line
great idea but a bit of a trek from the station for the visitors.

.... but if visitors could "share" the platform for the Safari Park, if that project ever goes ahead, it wouldn't be far to walk.
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Graham



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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if the intention was to have the Education & Participation Centre in the same building as the wagon shed within the Stourport triangle.
If so, it may be necessary to provide a shuttle service along the old Stourport line with a dedicated terminus within the goods yard so as not to interfere with trains using the Kidderminster line and Platform 1. A job for the Wickham trolleys or more modern equivalents perhaps?
If not, then assuming it's going to be at Bewdley, it would need to be within the already crowded goods yard.
There are already plans to redevelop Bewdley Station, so maybe it could be incorporated in that, or possibly under the arches of Wribbenhall Viaduct?

This is all a bit speculative as I don't know what the original proposals were that got turned down by the HLF or what proposals they would be likely to support.
One thing we've got in our favour is that, as far as I know, there is no other Moving Goods By Rail Education & Participation Centre in the country.
If we're going to do this, we ought to do it before anyone else does.
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hunter_i



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In his earlier post Paul Fathers explained that detailed plans have already been drawn up for redeveloping Bewdley as a freight education centre. I would very much like to hear Buffer's ideas on how to create an Ironbridge type education experience on the SVR. If all these ideas were integrated this would maximise the impact of a revised Lottery application.

Although Ironbridge explains the birth of the industrial revolution, the SVR is extremely well placed to explain how the railways then spread the revolution throughout the country, and created the towns and cities as we see today.

It is hard for present generations to appreciate that until recent times before motorways and modern reliable trucks, the railways transported virtually everything and everyone in an incredibly complex and sophisticated operation.

Perhaps to explain by example and to also better utilise our freight vehicles, we could run a regular passenger service using open wagons to demonstrate original third class travel!

On a more realistic note, as a supplement to the existing footplate experience, maybe advance driver training could be provided at a premium price, solving a shunting problem in a quiet siding. The Gold course would use a diesel shunter and the Platinum with steam.
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