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Improving the restoration rate of non passenger stock
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 874
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In his earlier post Paul Fathers explained that detailed plans have already been drawn up for redeveloping Bewdley as a freight education centre

Ah yes, I did read that, but I've been to sleep since then and forgot it.
I skimmed through the previous replies before replying myself, but somehow missed it. Hopefully the proposals submitted to the HLF will have line breaks and paragraphs to make it a bit easier to read.

Can anyone expand on this in plain English?
"They were however concerned that the learning and participation outcomes that were to be offered as part of the project were not as equally scoped and as a consequence did not feel that there was a suitable balance within the project to address our published criteria."

It looks like a lot of people put a lot of effort in to the original proposal, it got turned down, and that was the end of it.
What would it take to get things moving again?
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hunter_i



Joined: 07 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the question of how to proceed. A range of funding options have been identified, so establish level of interest as the next step?

Time for a meeting? But just interested parties or all members?

How to advertise? A note in the Mag or SVR live?

Although management is no doubt preoccupied with Bridgnorth. The redevelopment is currently still in the planning stage, so members may be interested in a new project.
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Buffer



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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Location: Leamington Spa

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hunter_i wrote:
In his earlier post Paul Fathers explained that detailed plans have already been drawn up for redeveloping Bewdley as a freight education centre. I would very much like to hear Buffer's ideas on how to create an Ironbridge type education experience on the SVR. If all these ideas were integrated this would maximise the impact of a revised Lottery application.


Clearly, the freight group has done a great deal of work on the proposed Bewdley freight education centre and I am reluctant to expand on my ideas for an Ironbridge type experience unless outside help is requested.
However, in order to show the HLF people what can be done, why not set up a smaller version in The Engine House which, after all, is the railway's Education Centre too? There is very little at present in the Education Department's offer that is directly related to the SVR and such an education and participation experience at Highley might well bring benefits to both the freight group and our education service.
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Stato



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ve heard the Festiniog railway are building a big storage shed to protect all their wagons. Is more info available about this?
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stanworth_i



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - go onto their website and look for the monthly Newsletter they produce 'Inside Motion' - there is loads about it in various editions. I think the building is built to store in the region of 150 waggons - but I might be wrong!
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stanworth_i



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Correction - the building is to store 220 freight vehicles!
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Stato



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow
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hunter_i



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re the Festiniog wagon storage shed, bear in mind most of the wagons are small 4 wheel slate wagons which don't take up much room.

Without wishing to disparage their achievement, since all the slate wagons would only be used on an occasional demonstration gravity working (which is still a very impressive sight), wagons of such small size could be stacked vertically for storage and take up much less room.

Their wagon shed appears to be approximately 30 meters (34 feet) by 85 meters (277 feet), which assuming four tracks would cover about 50 standard gauge wagons. Wonder how much the shed cost.

The photos of the construction of this shed and the similar diesel shed at Kidderminster emphasise how these modern steel sheds just bolt together, and I do wonder if it would be possible to start a SVR wagon shed with a small construction initially, maybe just a roof to at least provide cover for say the wooden wagons.

Whether the membership or the Lottery Fund would fund such is of course the question. But considering the proposal has already been drawn up for an education center based on the Bewdley goods shed, I have to note that the three back roads cover a significant area and could store a number of goods vehicles.

I fully realise that area is currently fully occupied with volunteer accommodation, stores and carriage restoration, but would it not logical in the long term to make Bewdley the freight museum/restoration center and move the carriages to Kidderminster.

In the latter context I note that carriage restoration facilities and Kidderminster are progressively being expanded. Also there does seem to be some vacant space at the west side of the carriage shed towards the back and behind the buildings that have sprouted there, for some external carriage storage/restoration. The carriage restoration teams currently working in the open at Bewdley, might even be able to enjoy the comforts of a "lean to" shed in that secluded spot.
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Stato



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hunter_i wrote:
Their wagon shed appears to be approximately 30 meters (34 feet) by 85 meters (277 feet), which assuming four tracks would cover about 50 standard gauge wagons. Wonder how much the shed cost.

see http://www.ffestiniograilway.org.uk/full_article?a=waggon-tracks-ii-appeal
That's the way to start a successful appeal.
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haynes_m



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst agreeing with the sentiments expressed by Ian I would point out that all the previous detailed examinations of the Kidderminster site to expand it for all carriage work only established that it was NOT possible which is why expanding the Bewdley carriage area is being examined. However the need for much better Wagon facilities is also being included.

The proposed Wagon accommodation is also being discussed and we should communicate the ideas once they are accepted as feasible. Cover for about 50 or so wagons is being estimated.

So there are 4 parallel ideas.
1. Improved Carriage restoration facilities at Bewdley
2. Improved wagon restoration facilities at Bewdley (share wood working machinery with Carriages)
3. New wagon storage accommodation to protect them and ensure the restorations achieved last a long time! (Not at Bewdley!)
4. Creating wagon exhibition area/site to show off how wagons fitted into the scene.

I hope that clarifies the current position. Save your pennies to contribute!

Mick
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Peter Share



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:42 am    Post subject: Wagons Display Area Reply with quote

We have an unenviable fleet of wagons, as well as carriages. I seem to remember, some years ago, there was talk of a display and storage shed based on the back road behind Highley signalbox, incorporating use of the small quarry that is there.

Or is my memory playing tricks on me (again) ?

Peter
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hearn_p



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember an application to the HLF from Paul Fathers for a wagon shed on the Stourport (edited - thanks Sharpo) line - but this is entirely recovered memory

Patrick
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Stourport Triangle is one of the areas being considered for the wagon storage shed. It looks a good choice to me as it would allow access from Bewdley goods yard without interfering with the main running line.
If we get a new workshop down the far end of the yard near the current carriage workshop, that would free up the goods shed to be used as a railway goods themed visitor centre to complement the Engine Shed at Highley.
Cover for 50 wagons might not sound enough when there are about 100 wagons on the railway, but if you take out the various PW wagons in regular use, the well wagons used for boiler storage at Bridgnorth and all the vans used as stores and mess rooms by different departments, it should be enough for all the vulnerable wooden bodied wagons.
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hunter_i



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Haynes raises the interesting question in his post of separate wagon exhibition and storage areas.

Perhaps I could briefly mention the approach of the Bo’ness and Kinneil Railway to their goods wagon display.

They claim to have the largest rail museum in Scotland and their web site is well worth a look. Apologies to those readers who have visited if my description of their museum is incorrect, but I can only make the following comments based on Google Earth and website photographs.

DISPLAY FORMAT

Their museum presents as a world class facility, and includes three large display sheds each roughly 100m (330 feet) long with three tracks.
The largest/main display shed is about 70 feet wide and provides space between the tracks for interpretive displays.

Although the main display shed contains engines and carriages there seems a heavy emphasis on goods wagons. These are displayed with demonstration loads which include an army tank, and related goods handling displays such as a Scammell mechanical horse, platform trolleys etc. All wagons appear to have information boards. Children are provided with various activity sheets to complete such as identifying particular boxes/packages located around the shed and drawing appropriate loading diagrams. It is interesting to note the SVR also has both a tank transporter and Scammell plus a comparable range of specialised wagons such as salt, petroleum cartage etc.

In some respects the Scottish display is similar to the SVR Engine House except the latter being smaller overall only has space for a small goods wagon display.

LOCATION

The SVR is very fortunate in having more world class attractions and facilities than any other UK Heritage Railway. Assuming the Bridgnorth development meets expectations, the remaining missing link is a suitable facility for the unique collection of goods wagons.

Ideally a large single shed for all the goods vehicles would be the preferred option as per the Scottish example, but the currently SVR does not have the available space.

A wagon facility on the Stourport triangle would present access issues for the general public, however if confined to storage only, would be a feasible option. It seems from Google Earth that Bo’ness does have what appears to be a dedicated wagon storage facility, a two road Nissan type hut about 200 feet long. Even a single road hut covering 40/50 vehicles may fit in the Stourport triangle. However I should mention in my part of the world an isolated museum storage shed was recently burnt to the ground by vandals, which resulted in the total destruction of a number of irreplaceable historic trams.

Turning to a possible location for a wagon exhibition area, as noted by Graham Phillips the Goods shed at Bewdley would provide a unique display for visitors of goods handling, the main problem being it would be hemmed in by the carriage expansion referred to by Michael. I seem to recall there was a report in the SVR News several years ago of a survey done (as a work experience exercise?) to locate a new workshop in the location suggested by Graham near the existing building.

Although the final location for a wagon display will be decided by management based on the best available options I wonder if, as already mentioned in an earlier post, the back road at Highley is at all viable?

I am prompted to make this suggestion for several reasons – It would complement the Engine Shed and attract the same cliental, there may be sufficient space on railway land for a reasonable size shed or alternately surrounding land may be affordable, and it is also surrounded by historic coal workings - which is why the railways were first established and would put surrounding country walks at Highley in context.

VISITOR EXPERIENCE/EDUCATION

The original submission to the Lottery Fund for a goods wagon facility at Bewdley apparently floundered on the requirement to provide visitor education, and this aspect could be improved by associated developments surrounding a wagon shed at Highley.

There was mention in the SVR News some time ago that the dismantled coal merchants office would be placed at Highley for display along with possibly a weighbridge. Coal wagon traffic was of course the reason for the extra loop lines at Highley station.

I also seem to recall an article in the SVR News by a gentleman (retired railway worker?) who was raised in a railway cottage near the SVR (can’t remember if it was Highley or not), but I found his reminiscences of how the family coped with life in a tiny remote county cottage with no modern amenities fascinating, and his stories also emphasised their total reliance on the railway to deliver all the essentials above mere survival.

No doubt I am being too romantic, but this human story of the importance of railway freight may well resonate with our passengers. While we could get by with talks by volunteers in the wagon shed, a lecture/demonstration of life in an actual railway cottage would be much more realistic. Ideally we would need to relocate a suitable cottage, but it would pay for itself if attracting Lottery funding!

Creating a kind of living country museum with two or three suitable buildings may be beyond the comfort zone/expertise of management and volunteers, and well way from railway operation. But there are various options for managing a Highley museum/education complex, and even some limited education scenarios as touched on would make a very unique attraction and hopefully attract new customers.

Finally I will put my foot further in mouth by suggesting some arrangement for animals to be present on occasion, such as draft horses which pulled the wagons or even chickens by the railway cottage! Perhaps the marketing department could research whether visiting the animals would prompt return visits by family members who would otherwise have little interest in stream trains.

Sorry again for the ramble.
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Stato



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haynes_m wrote:

The proposed Wagon accommodation is also being discussed and we should communicate the ideas once they are accepted as feasible. Cover for about 50 or so wagons is being estimated.

So there are 4 parallel ideas.
1. Improved Carriage restoration facilities at Bewdley
2. Improved wagon restoration facilities at Bewdley (share wood working machinery with Carriages)
3. New wagon storage accommodation to protect them and ensure the restorations achieved last a long time! (Not at Bewdley!)
4. Creating wagon exhibition area/site to show off how wagons fitted into the scene.

I hope that clarifies the current position. Save your pennies to contribute!
Mick
Already putting spare change into my piggy bank for this one. Do we know when the wagon shed could happen?
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