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Brake van rides behind GWR 813: 25 November 2017
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 919
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:06 am    Post subject: Brake van rides behind GWR 813: 25 November 2017 Reply with quote



This is an advance notice to gauge interest. I need to arrange a meeting with the management to sort out all the details, but not surprisingly, they're all a bit busy this week.
We're hoping to run two round trips, BY-KR-BH-BY, on the second or third weekend of November with 12 places available, ten in the brake van nearest the engine and two in the working brake van.
The 4150 Fund charged 35 for their brake van rides, so that's a guide to the cost.
If it sells out, we may be able to run a third round trip in a day, or we may run a second day.
Could anyone who's interested let me know please so we can get an idea of numbers in advance?
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Graham Phillips
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Peter Share



Joined: 30 Jul 2012
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Location: W'hampton

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject: Brake van rides Reply with quote

I know I couldn't do November, but if you waited till next spring, would there be at least one, if not two more brake vans available?

Peter
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're taking a leaf out of Flying Scotsman's book. Restore it in the second favourite livery, then next year they can sell it all again when it gets repainted and renumbered the way everyone wants to see it. Wink

We're doing what we can with what we've got for now, which is one GWR and one LMS brake van. This time next year, we will hopefully be able to offer a more authentic two GWR Toads.
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Graham Phillips
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 919
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's looking like this is unlikely to happen this year now.
First of all, GWR 813's owners need to agree a formal running contract and steaming fees with the SVR. Hopefully this will be done before the November Gala.
Secondly, an official policy on the carrying of passengers in brake vans needs to be drawn up. This will probably mean that we will need to wait until one or both of the fitted brake vans currently under restoration at Bewdley are completed.
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Graham Phillips
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threelinkdave



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
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Location: Stratford-upon-Avon

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham wrote:
It's looking like this is unlikely to happen this year now.
First of all, GWR 813's owners need to agree a formal running contract and steaming fees with the SVR. Hopefully this will be done before the November Gala.
Secondly, an official policy on the carrying of passengers in brake vans needs to be drawn up. This will probably mean that we will need to wait until one or both of the fitted brake vans currently under restoration at Bewdley are completed.
It may not be necessary to use vac fitted brakes. Each brake van can be stopped independantly in case of a train splitting. It woud however mean a guard would be needed for each brakevan used
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still not sure about the legality of that. I've heard it said that passengers are not allowed in unfitted vehicles, but I can't find it in writing anywhere.
Whatever might have happened in the past and whatever the law might be, if the SVR decide that from now on it is against SVR rules, we will have to wait until a fitted van is available.
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Danny252



Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note that legislation (and ORR guidance on it) does make specific reference to continuous, automatic brakes, not simply that each vehicle has a brake of any description, although it also only gives the ORR/HMRI/etc. the ability to require it, rather than a blanket ruling.

There are also potential issues with passengers being able to tamper with the brake when riding in a brake van, although this is lessened if each van has a guard.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't given up hope on this.
The Shark brake van is fitted and was used for a photo charter last week. We also have a number of fitted goods wagons, so it would be possible to make up a short fully fitted goods train.
All it needs is for someone at Comberton Place to answer my emails or return my phone calls. I'll try again today, but I won't be surprised if they're all "in a meeting" all day again.
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RichardS



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think most of HQ were sampling some new food samples in the valley suite in an extended lunch break yesterday..

Pity the station volunteers who had just put up all the Halloween decorations were not invited to the sampling and survey.
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nick813



Joined: 01 Jan 2010
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Location: poole dorset

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a formal agreement is a bit of a red herring as the Fund will be supplying the locomotive for nothing.


Nick
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that is one of the points I've been trying to make. We want to use our own locomotive, so a sensible starting place to agree a cost would be the sum that the 4150 Fund paid for their brake van charter, minus the steaming fee for 1450.
I wouldn't have believed it could be so difficult to get a cost, a list of available dates and a simple, honest answer about how many passengers we could carry in a brake van.
Another email not replied to and another phone call not returned today. I'll try again tomorrow.
Just out of interest, does anyone know how much the SVR charges for photo charters? Not per person, but the total cost to the organiser of hiring a train for a day? Probably best to reply via private message.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the PMs. Why am I not surprised to find that I am not the first to have problems like this?

I'm not sure of the dates,but I think it was two days after the photo charter that I was told by the Operations Manager that passengers could not be carried in brake vans.
So, at the moment it's looking like the Operations Manager either doesn't know what trains are operating on his railway, or is deliberately trying to prevent me chartering a train.
If someone would return my calls I might find out what's really happening.
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Graham Phillips
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Derby4



Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graham: Pop round to Comberton Place, and "doorstep" the OM!

I did that this morning with the branch manager of Boots Opticians regarding a long delayed pair of spectacles, and--excuse the pun--with spectacular results!

Rob
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std tank



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Liverpool

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't the information about passengers travelling in brake vans be available in the SVR's SMS documents?

Peter
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Danny252



Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At a quick glance I was unable to find anything relevant in the SMS, but there are several dozen documents that make up the SMS. The General Appendix states that written authorities must be granted for members of the public travelling in freight brake vans (no surprise there), but includes no requirements for the brake van itself.
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Daniel Evans
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