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Class 88 88003 Genesis

 
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Divington_R



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 200
Location: Nuneaton

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Class 88 88003 Genesis Reply with quote

The visiting class 88 locomotive coming over to the gala is of technical interest to me and I am keen to learn more about it.

The SVR web site bills it as a dual mode loco, to quote 'A further development of the Class 68 platform, the Class 88 is a true “Dual Mode” locomotive combining both 25kv Electric and Diesel Electric operating modes'.

Is there some knowledgable person on the forum who can explain to me the meaning of dual-mode, bi-mode and hybrid? For my sake please keep any respone at a simple level please?

Thank you in advance.
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sharpo



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 3186
Location: Dark Side

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_88

Above explains about the loco quite well.

If you hadn't seen my video of 88002 a few days ago as it passed Stafford:-

https://youtu.be/EHJMiIBMD80
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hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 5676
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the below is from memory and i am happy to be corrected.

AIUI bi-mode, dual mode and electro-diesel are synonomous. It means they can operate in electric or diesel mode, as does the class 88 and the new Hitachi 80x sets being tested for the Great Western and East Coast. It's not a new concept as 'electro-diesels' operated on the SR from 1962, though it will definitely be more common.

The class 73s were originally built as 1600hp electric/650 hp diesel but the rebuilds generate 1500/1600 hp in diesel mode. The class 88s are fitted only with a small 'last mile' generator, like the 73s were, generating 950hp. In diesel mode they are a class 20 equivalent.

Many electrics now have regenerative braking, feeding energy back into the grid. A hybrid, in rail terminolgy, involves a vehicle with some capability of storing energy. The diesel Class 139s use a flywheel and a class 379 was kitted out for tests with batteries. Braking energy could be stored and used as auxilliary power during acceleration or to power an electric vehcle away from the wires. (Vivarail have bought the batteries from the 379 trial I believe to further develop the proposal using redundant D78 Underground stock).

Patrick
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Joe2027



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 685
Location: Wednesfield

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hearn_p wrote:
All the below is from memory and i am happy to be corrected.

AIUI bi-mode, dual mode and electro-diesel are synonomous. It means they can operate in electric or diesel mode, as does the class 88 and the new Hitachi 80x sets being tested for the Great Western and East Coast. It's not a new concept as 'electro-diesels' operated on the SR from 1962, though it will definitely be more common.

The class 73s were originally built as 1600hp electric/650 hp diesel but the rebuilds generate 1500/1600 hp in diesel mode. The class 88s are fitted only with a small 'last mile' generator, like the 73s were, generating 950hp. In diesel mode they are a class 20 equivalent.

Many electrics now have regenerative braking, feeding energy back into the grid. A hybrid, in rail terminolgy, involves a vehicle with some capability of storing energy. The diesel Class 139s use a flywheel and a class 379 was kitted out for tests with batteries. Braking energy could be stored and used as auxilliary power during acceleration or to power an electric vehcle away from the wires. (Vivarail have bought the batteries from the 379 trial I believe to further develop the proposal using redundant D78 Underground stock).

Patrick


If you believe what wikipedia has to say, the class 88 is a full dual loco that can run under diesel power for passenger or freight services. The tractive effort is 71,000 lbf.
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KJEvans



Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 1236
Location: Kidderminster or Edinburgh

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe2027 wrote:
hearn_p wrote:
All the below is from memory and i am happy to be corrected.

AIUI bi-mode, dual mode and electro-diesel are synonomous. It means they can operate in electric or diesel mode, as does the class 88 and the new Hitachi 80x sets being tested for the Great Western and East Coast. It's not a new concept as 'electro-diesels' operated on the SR from 1962, though it will definitely be more common.

The class 73s were originally built as 1600hp electric/650 hp diesel but the rebuilds generate 1500/1600 hp in diesel mode. The class 88s are fitted only with a small 'last mile' generator, like the 73s were, generating 950hp. In diesel mode they are a class 20 equivalent.

Many electrics now have regenerative braking, feeding energy back into the grid. A hybrid, in rail terminolgy, involves a vehicle with some capability of storing energy. The diesel Class 139s use a flywheel and a class 379 was kitted out for tests with batteries. Braking energy could be stored and used as auxilliary power during acceleration or to power an electric vehcle away from the wires. (Vivarail have bought the batteries from the 379 trial I believe to further develop the proposal using redundant D78 Underground stock).

Patrick


If you believe what wikipedia has to say, the class 88 is a full dual loco that can run under diesel power for passenger or freight services. The tractive effort is 71,000 lbf.

Horsepower is more important that tractive effort for many things. 950hp is ok for light duties but anything greater would require running in pairs.
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45002



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 523
Location: Area 51.............

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Some Reply with quote

More info on DRS Class 88 here

https://www.directrailservices.com/news-articles/2016/07/28/class-88-locomotive/

Quote:
Testing of 88001 in Velim has concluded, reporting on the testing Stadler said: “During UKDual test campaign in Velim, two main goals have been covered.

First, we have focused to perform all test related to homologation purposes by using the capabilities of Velim test center (TSI track, catenary characteristics, braking distances.).

As second goal, we have tested and adjusted locomotive performances as traction control in different conditions, diesel engine and electrical power management, by hauling a train of 1500Tons and an ER20 locomotive.



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hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 5676
Location: North Somerset

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KJEvans wrote:

Horsepower is more important that tractive effort for many things. 950hp is ok for light duties but anything greater would require running in pairs.


Yes, the tractive effort will get it moving, the horsepower gives the acceleration and speed. So it moves tonnages on electric or diesel, but in diesel not very quickly. It is designed for "last mile" use on diesel, or to be able to move its load out of the way in the event of OHLE problems.

Patrick
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threelinkdave



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 649
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon

PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the small diesel in a class 73 they have shown prodigious pulling power.I used to comute between Kent and London. One morning a derailed freight caused power to the third rail to be switched off between Tonbridge and Sevenoaks. A 73 on diesel lifted 3 x 4CEP (12 coach EMU) up Hildenborough bank which is quite steep but I cant lay my hands on the gradient profile
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sharpo



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 3186
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

threelinkdave wrote:
Despite the small diesel in a class 73 they have shown prodigious pulling power.I used to comute between Kent and London. One morning a derailed freight caused power to the third rail to be switched off between Tonbridge and Sevenoaks. A 73 on diesel lifted 3 x 4CEP (12 coach EMU) up Hildenborough bank which is quite steep but I cant lay my hands on the gradient profile

1 in 122.
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Sharpo (happily avoiding facebook & twitter)

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Divington_R



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
Posts: 200
Location: Nuneaton

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw the locomotive on display in the diesel depot today. Did not realise it is named 'Genesis'. What a machine!
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