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Safari Park link to the SVR
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
Posts: 892
Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Safari Park link to the SVR Reply with quote

This subject, which has been going on since at least 2011, has come up again at a West Midlands Combined Authority Transport Delivery Committee meeting on 4th September 2017;

"WMT [West Midlands Trains] will also be actively developing proposals for a number of new services within the WMR [West Midlands Rail] area including:

[...]

New service to West Midlands Safari Park as an extension of Birmingham - Kidderminster services which will operate along the Severn Valley Railway
"

Document available at https://governance.wmca.org.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=134&MId=168&Ver=4

Direct link to document

See page 155, paragraph 2.9

Does anyone know any details of this most recent, or any previous, plans? From what I remember, it was a spur facing Kidderminster, rather than a loop with access to Bewdley as well.
It's unfortunate that it needs the one part of the SVR that isn't built to double track width.
Just a couple of thoughts;
Could the track be made double as far as Foley Park, or could the proposed loop at Foley Park be used as a passing loop? Would this offer any operational advantage for mainline trains to reach the Safari Park while SVR trains are running?
If the Safari Park wanted to run late night trains after the firework show, or at any other time that SVR trains are not running, would it be possible to alter the signalling so that Kidderminster box could be switched out and that section could be controlled by Network Rail?
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Divington_R



Joined: 05 Feb 2016
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Location: Nuneaton

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Graham, this could be a fascinating situation seeing through trains to Birmingham. How they would physically fit in between the steam trains would, I guess, take some working out. They would probably want to run at a much faster speed so would question if that is feasible?
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Danny252



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Divington_R wrote:
How they would physically fit in between the steam trains would, I guess, take some working out.


Timetabling between Bewdley and Kidderminster is by far the most flexible on the railway; 6 trains an hour through the section in any combination isn't completely unreasonable.
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hearn_p



Joined: 15 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danny252 wrote:
Divington_R wrote:
How they would physically fit in between the steam trains would, I guess, take some working out.


Timetabling between Bewdley and Kidderminster is by far the most flexible on the railway; 6 trains an hour through the section in any combination isn't completely unreasonable.


From a traffic management point of view how might this be affected were a dmu to reverse 'in section' at Foley Park with, say, a 5 minute turnaround?

Patrick
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sharpo



Joined: 19 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would only be about 2 miles from a new platform at the Safari Park spur to the loop at Kidderminster. If a train was to leave there after a southbound SVR train had cleared the section then it would probably be waiting at the exchange siding to go onto the NR tracks before the SVR loco had even run round its train.

Going to the Safari Park, if it was held for a southbound train to arrive at Kidderminster then it would be at the new platform before the SVR train was ready to depart.

An interesting idea might be a combined park & ride facility that shared the Safari Park platform, commuters morning and evening for passengers to Birmingham and London etc. and park visitors arriving by train during the day. All pie in the sky - but strange things sometimes do happen!
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hearn_p



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharpo wrote:
It would only be about 2 miles from a new platform at the Safari Park spur to the loop at Kidderminster. If a train was to leave there after a southbound SVR train had cleared the section then it would probably be waiting at the exchange siding to go onto the NR tracks before the SVR loco had even run round its train.

Going to the Safari Park, if it was held for a southbound train to arrive at Kidderminster then it would be at the new platform before the SVR train was ready to depart.

An interesting idea might be a combined park & ride facility that shared the Safari Park platform, commuters morning and evening for passengers to Birmingham and London etc. and park visitors arriving by train during the day. All pie in the sky - but strange things sometimes do happen!


I'm a signalling* ignoramus but had assumed the project would include no resignalling and just a FP platform on the SVR main line, so if the incoming dmu had passed the loop at KR it would have to go to FP, disgorge, load and reverse back to the loop to clear the section - around 10-15 minutes? A train could be waiting for the line at BY at KR.

Resignalling - for example to include a block post(?) at FP - would alleviate that but increase the complexity of the project.

The halt would also serve the new housing. The Safari Park is also an (almost) year round attraction so one would have to assume year round access, so require manning of KR and BS boxes? It would complicate Santas certainly.

I'm agnostic on the whole thing but would be interested to hear comments.

Patrick

*and in much of railway operation
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sharpo



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The spur must've appeared in a dream then, sorry for that.
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Danny252



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hearn_p wrote:
From a traffic management point of view how might this be affected were a dmu to reverse 'in section' at Foley Park with, say, a 5 minute turnaround?

If the halt were inside the signalling section, I don't believe any changes to the signalling system would be required, though I imagine some special instructions would be issued.

However, the Safari Park is also quite near to Bewdley South SB (you can see the elephants out the window!). With careful placement of a "Safari Park halt", or alterations to signal positions, it would be possible to have the train pass through the section to Bewdley South.
Quote:
The Safari Park is also an (almost) year round attraction so one would have to assume year round access, so require manning of KR and BS boxes?

These issues appear to have been dealt with satisfactorily for the Northern Belle operation, which regularly requires KR box to be opened at strange times, like 3am on a Sunday.
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Graham



Joined: 21 May 2011
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Location: The banks of the River Severn as it meanders through the sun dappled leafy glades of Worcestershire

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The spur must've appeared in a dream then

I must have had the same dream. I can find the plans for the new hotel and water park on the north west corner of the site, but I can't find any mention of the link to the SVR on the southern boundary. Maybe it was a shuttle bus or monorail connecting to a halt on the SVR, rather than a junction and a terminus at the hotel as I thought.

The halt at Foley Park is a separate matter. I've read a lot of complaints about lack of parking at the new leisure centre, so I don't think a park and ride is likely. Selling houses at 100k is better business than renting car park spaces at 3 a day, so I would expect to see the whole site filled up eventually.
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sharpo



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried a few searches but nothing really helpful

http://wyreforestdc-consult.limehouse.co.uk/portal/lppo?pointId=s1478792468269

13.24

The Severn Valley Railway (SVR) is one of the leading heritage railways in the UK, operating over a 16 mile route between Kidderminster and Bewdley to Bridgnorth in Shropshire. The railway is one of the major tourist attractions in Worcestershire with over 200,000 visitors annually. There is potential for connections to the National Rail network at Kidderminster Rail Station to enhance services to/from Bewdley. This would, however, require significant investment and support from the Department of Transport (DfT) before this could be realised.
13.25

As part of the 70 acre 'Silverwoods' development on the former British Sugar site (A451 Stourport Road), now accessed via the new Hoobrook Link Road, works are on-going for a mixed used development including 250 homes. The outline planning consent for 'Silverwoods' includes provision for a new rail halt on the nearby SVR line to connect to the SVR and National Rail services. The viability of such a scheme will require further investigation before it is considered feasible.
13.26

The West Midlands Safari Park, located near the SVR line has ambitious plans for an indoor water park, 1,000-delegate conference and exhibition centre and 250-bedroom hotel; also included are aspirations for a railway station on the SVR with connections on to the National Rail network at Kidderminster. The Park is keen that the arrival of HS2 in Birmingham in 2026 may support further visitor volume growth.
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Joe2027



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sharpo wrote:
The spur must've appeared in a dream then, sorry for that.


Going completely OTT, if the Snow Hill Lines Electrification from BSW to KID where to go ahead, we could see KID to FP also electrified, steam under the wires. Not only that, also the SVR could have an electric loco gala with class 87's, class 81's and pendolinos .Wink
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hunter_i



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be relevant to note the current plans for a wagon storage shed at Foley Park include a halt but no room for double track, unless there is room on the opposite side of the running line where the previous halt was.

https://svrwagons.wixsite.com/svrwagons/foley-park-plan
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sharpo



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe2027 wrote:
sharpo wrote:
The spur must've appeared in a dream then, sorry for that.


Going completely OTT, if the Snow Hill Lines Electrification from BSW to KID where to go ahead, we could see KID to FP also electrified, steam under the wires. Not only that, also the SVR could have an electric loco gala with class 87's, class 81's and pendolinos .Wink

Don't worry about that, bi-mode trains will solve the problem. If the Birmingham Metro can be extended up Broad Street without wires then a short hop up the Valley won't be a problem!
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GWR5764PT



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call me a cynic but I don't think it will ever happen, Chiltern Railways were rumoured to be interested in extending their services to Bewdley but nothing ever came of it. If it did happen it would somewhat hinder our galas and this year SVR services have hardly been known be on time this year.
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Derby4



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mentioned today on the BBC Midlands Today bulletin, as one of twelve possible new rail stations in the West Midlands.

All subject to "feasibility studies" though.
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