SVR-Online Forum Forum Index SVR-Online Forum
The forum is run on a voluntary basis for members, volunteers and SVR enthusiasts.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

THE 82045 LOCOMOTIVE TRUST
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 28, 29, 30  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SVR-Online Forum Forum Index -> Motive Power
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lms8f48773
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 8:33 am    Post subject: THE 82045 LOCOMOTIVE FUND Reply with quote

Fund aims to build a Riddles Class 3 2-6-2 tank to be based on the Severn Valley Railway.We already have a number of components and a useful library of engineering drawings, and if we can achieve the necessary funding, 82045 could be running within a very few years'time. It is our intention that this locomotive should break new ground by being the precursor of small-scale series production of new steam engines suitable for use on heritage lines in the UK.Existing locos will not last for ever: we believe that this is the only way to assure a future for working steam in this country. We also believe that the Standard Class 3 tank is ideal for the purpose, as well as plugging a gap in preservation

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/the82045locomotivefund/


Last edited by lms8f48773 on Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
Hoovers-rock



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 379
Location: Kidderminster Yard.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can i ask. Are you planning to build a new one from spares and new parts or is it a restoration of a existing loco
_________________
George Hill - All opinions are my own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
lms8f48773
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: THE 82045 LOCOMOTIVE FUND Reply with quote

Hoovers-rock wrote:
can i ask. Are you planning to build a new one from spares and new parts or is it a restoration of a existing loco


this locomotive will be new. all 44 of this class where all skrap. there is no exusting Locomotive. The persons that now more about this class are

Tony Massau or Chris Proudfoot
tony.massau@ntlworld.com. or ProudfoC@aol.com

both work on the svr. Very Happy


Last edited by lms8f48773 on Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
Hoovers-rock



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 379
Location: Kidderminster Yard.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. It would be very good to see it working on the line. Unfortunatly i have no way of assisting with money because im only 14. But i hope it happens.
_________________
George Hill - All opinions are my own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
lms8f48773
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 82045 Locomotive Fund
4 Southfield
Prestbury, Macclesfield
SK10 4XF
Tel 01625 820584



NEWSLETTER No.6 Spring 2007


Whilst we may have been somewhat low key publicity wise for a while, this is in sharp contrast to behind the scenes activity for we are delighted to announce that we now have the two main frame plates for the locomotive. Corus Plate Profiling Centre in the West Midlands have provided the steel plates cut to shape from the BR drawing and at the time of writing these notes the plates are receiving some machining work at J.A.Y. Engineering ( Cradley ) Ltd. In the West Midlands. These frame plates will shortly move to the Severn Valley Railway where initially they will not be available for public viewing. However plans are afoot to move them in due course to an area where they may be seen by the public. We have spent approximately £10,000 on this phase of the construction of 82045. Thanks are due to the members who responded to our appeal before the end of 2006 for the finance for this activity and to Corus, J.A.Y. Engineering, and the Severn Valley Railway for their help and co-operation.

With the frame plates in existence we can now set our sights on the next phase, subject to a large injection of finance. This will involve construction of all the frame stretchers, smokebox saddle, buffer beams, horn guides and horn stays. Before all these components can be brought together to mate up with the main frame plates the latter will require drilling. Additionally, there is the creation of leading and trailing driving wheels and axles to consider together with six axleboxes for all driving wheels. We understand that another new build project has recently had six new driving wheels cast at a cost of £60,000. Add to this tyres, axles and machining work and it is easy to see why steam locomotive engineering is a good exercise in spending large amounts of money.

At last, though, we now have something literally on the ground to confound the sceptics and show everyone that we mean business! A press release is due to go out to the four main hobby magazines this week and we are hoping that they will feature it prominently in their respective forthcoming issues. The story will be accompanied by an impressive photograph of the frame plates at J.A.Y. Engineering's premises, which the company has kindly sent to us.

We are hopeful that this major step forward towards the building of 82045 will bring us lots of new support and are very anxious to capitalise on our new “head of steam” and press on with the next phase of the project.

We are most grateful for the generous support of those members who responded to the appeal for finance in the Newsletter No. 5 supplement, winter 2006. The results of their generosity are already there for all to see. Please carry on supporting us! Every little helps and we are delighted to receive any contributions, no matter how small. One relatively painless way for us to build up our resources is to set up a monthly standing order and if every one of our steadily growing core of members were to contribute monthly, according to his or her means, we would very soon build up some healthy financial muscle! Have a word with Chris about this if you like. His email address is below and he can be contacted on 01928 787255.

Any other bright ideas will also be welcome. Make no mistake about it, we are utterly determined to succeed in this project and we can only do so with your help.

We were present at the Warley Model railway Exhibition at the NEC, Birmingham in front of 80079 with our colleagues from the Severn Valley Railway at the beginning of last December. We were also in attendance at Bridgnorth on the occasion of the Severn Valley Railway members and shareholders weekend in late March to air our project.

Chris and Tony attended the Spring meeting of the BR Standard Loco Owners Group at Haworth at the end of March. The afternoon meeting followed a ride behind 80002. One BRSLOG member has had patterns made for the Gresham & Craven mark six graduable steam brake valve and is ready to go into production of this item subject to a minimum order for ten units. The price per unit is forecast to be between £800 to £900. The class 3 tank engines originally were fitted with the mark four version of this valve but unless one is a “pedantic rivet counter” we see no reason why a mark six could not be fitted to 82045 if this is the economic option. Any sponsors? We were also notified of an item of brake rigging suitable for a class 3 loco made in error for another standard class, but again some additional funding is required at present.

Finally as ever we would be more than just delighted to make the acquaintance of a sponsor for a new boiler.

The next meeting for members and potential new members of The 82045 Locomotive Fund will be on Saturday 4th. August 2007 at 2.30pm upstairs at Kidderminster Railway Museum. We look forward to welcoming as many of you as possible.


tony.massau@ntlworld.com or ProudfoC@aol.com


Last edited by lms8f48773 on Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of BR standards, the pony truck removed for overhaul from 43106 carries a 76XXX number.






Sorry Tony, they won't part with it! Smile
_________________
There are two kinds of people.

1: Those who back up their hard drives.
2: Those who have never had a hard drive crash.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lms8f48773
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:33 pm    Post subject: THE 82045 LOCOMOTIVE FUND Reply with quote

Up to now just Roger Pridham who quoted £300,000 for the boiler and
firebox though this was two years ago so we must anticipate that it
will be more now. We will also be contacting Israel Newton and may
even try Meiningen - I can speak German, so that might help there.

Overall cost for building 82045 is very roughly one and a quarter
million pounds. If this person would like to get in touch with Tony or
myself directly, please feel free to suggest that he does.
Back to top
TonyW



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but I have bitten my tongue about this project up until now. However, the revelation that the project is likely to cost £1.25 million - or more - forces a response.

WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY, TIME AND EFFORT!

And all this for an insignificant and not very different BR standard loco.

In my opinion, this money, should you ever actually raise it, would be better spent on fixing some of the locos destined to spend the next few decades incarcerated in the Engine House.

Gentlemen, I hope that common sense prevails and that you do not get too far down the financial road before seeing the folly of what you are trying to achieve.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyW wrote:
I'm sorry, etc. etc. etc.
Confused Well done Tony. That's the way to get a decent rant going. Far, far more important that who does the day to day running of the place. Shocked

http://forum.svra.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=283&start=150
_________________
There are two kinds of people.

1: Those who back up their hard drives.
2: Those who have never had a hard drive crash.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lms8f48773
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: THE 82045 LOCOMOTIVE FUND Reply with quote

Please forward, Paul.

If you cannot think of anything positive to say, please do us the courtesy of keeping your mouth shut!


Rgerads,

Chris P
Back to top
lms8f48773
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: THE 82045 LOCOMOTIVE FUND Reply with quote

Dear Tony,

We clearly share an overriding common interest and probably have certain opinions in common but should agree to differ where this is not so.

Destructive comment is like a red rag to a bull with me, I'm afraid: I am heartily sick of armchair pundits (please excuse me if you don't come into this category!) who cannot offer anything constructive, but am always happy to engage in dialogue, preferably friendly.

We live in a world so mad that Lewis Carroll could hardly have dreamed it up, but you must believe me when I tell you that I would not have become involved in this project if I had had any suspicion that it, too, was as mad as some people seem to think.

The 82045 project is moving along nicely: you should look for an announcement in the respective forthcoming issue of the main hobby mags.

If you would like to have a chat please feel free to ring me on 01928 787255.

With best regards - and apologies for this morning's knee-jerk reply,

Chris Proudfoot
Back to top
TonyW



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha! Nothing like a bit of free speech, is there?

My comments were not meant to be destructive. They were meant to be a warning to those involved with this project that you could be wasting your time, money and effort on something that you will struggle to achieve. Hey, but it is your money, and you can do what you want with it. I just feel disappointed that you are diluting the funds available to other well-loved SVR locos. The supply of money for these things is finite.

I am not an armchair pundit, by any stretch of the imagination. I am heavily involved with a loco project at a railway in the North West in which we have successfully raised sufficient funds to have a brand-new boiler constructed and a reasonably substantial mechanical overhaul. Over 95% of these funds were raised by having the loco earn its own keep, rather than passing the hat round, so I do know a bit about these things. I was also a volunteer at the SVR for over 10 years before moving on to pastures new.

I take issue with a couple of items on the first item on this dialogue, also reproduced on the entry page to your yahoo group, namely:

- It is our intention that this locomotive should break new ground by being the precursor of small-scale series production of new steam engines suitable for use on heritage lines in the UK.

A bold statement, if ever there was one. By your own admission you have costed your loco at £1.25m (under-costed in my view), so now I am trying to think of a standard gauge tourist railway that would have that kind of money kicking around to go out and buy a new loco.... And I can't. Not one. Can you?

- Existing locos will not last for ever.

This hoary old chestnut comes up over and over again. On what basis is this statement made? The simple answer is that nobody knows how long the existing locos will last because we have not got to that point yet. How long is "for ever", 100 years?, 150 years?. I have noticed that City of Truro keeps going, and there is that Furnace 0-4-0 at the Lakeside & Haverthwaite, even Prince at the Festiniog has managed over 140 years and doesn't seem close to retirement just yet.

The fact is that repair of an existing loco will ALWAYS be cheaper than buying a new one. Why? Simple: because they do not go all wrong at once. Knackered boiler: make a new one. Cracked frames: weld/patch or replace. Damaged wheels: make new. Axles: no problem. My point is that 90+% of the thing will probably be fully serviceable and will not need replacing.

This mind set that locos cannot last forever is, in my view, flawed. They can, do and will last longer than any of us, and at substantially less cost than constructing a complete new loco. The price to pay may be that "traditional construction" has to go out the window. I'll use the loco with which I am involved as an example.

We had a fully rivetted boiler made around 1900, a lovely piece of work. Problem was that the smokebox tubeplate was shot, severe grooving around the foundation ring, thin firebox platework, all stays to replace, etc., etc. You get the picture. The pressure was on to have this boiler repaired, but common sense triumphed and instead we ordered the new all-welded boiler - not a rivet in sight anywhere. We could have spent thousands on the old boiler and as work progressed discovered yet more hidden problems, and at the end of the work we would still have had a boiler that was 100+ years old. Instead, we will soon have our new boiler that is guaranteed to work at a guaranteed price and that will see my colleagues and myself shuffle off in due course.

The same can be said for carriages. All that timber, what the hell is that about? Costs a fortune and doesn't last 5 minutes. 20 years ago the SVR should have led the way in a new range of heritage carriages. This would have been achieved by:
- Taking an existing heritage carriage.
- Gutting the interior of all fittings.
- Levelling the body work to the frame.
- Constructing a new frame out of stainless steel.
- Clad the body in stainless/coated/whatever sheet.
- Reinstate original interior.

They would have cost some money, but they would have lasted forever!

But I guess this is all thinking outside of the box and not how it is done. Swindon/Crewe didn't do it like that, so it must be wrong. Or is it?

Anyway, I thank you for your response and am heartily impressed with the offer to call you. I see little point in doing so, so I won't waste your time, but thanks anyway.

I'll take my leave by saying that my opinion of your project has not changed. I wish your project ... well, nothing really and suggest that you fund the repairs to 80079 instead. Sorry.


Last edited by TonyW on Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jurasik



Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Wolverhampton

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This project has echo's of the A1 locomotive project up in Darlington. I do not share Mr TonyW's sentiments. I wish you & your project partners all the best to completing the project & look forward to seeing 82045 in steam at the SVR. I am sure the management will welcome a brand new locomotive with open arms.
Please keep us informed of the project's progress & ignore anybody who wants to rain on your parade.
_________________
No matter where you go, there you are!
http://s998.photobucket.com/home/sillyness_2010
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
brasso1



Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 410
Location: Kidderminster - 'The Hole'

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting debate this, I dislike politics – but here is my observation…

It’s a case of agree to disagree, in terms of free speech you are indeed free to make your points heard Tony, but why de-value the project and try to negatively influence readers. I personally feel its a great plan, and hope it proves a sucsess. I also feel that a production run could be possible as the economy of scale would be in your favour - one major benifit being cast products.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
boldford



Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2727
Location: Glad to be no longer stuck on that linear parking lot known better as the M6

PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brasso1 wrote:
the economy of scale would be in your favour - one major benifit being cast products.
It may be of interest that those patterns for castings that aren't available via the BRSLOG, and thus would need to be made anew, are also common to 43106 as well as 80079 and 75069.

Can someone inform me how many other BR standards are extant?
_________________
There are two kinds of people.

1: Those who back up their hard drives.
2: Those who have never had a hard drive crash.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SVR-Online Forum Forum Index -> Motive Power All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 28, 29, 30  Next
Page 1 of 30

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group